We need Change!!
 

In light of the two boys from Jupiter, FL. missing after a boat mishap
Friday the 24th of July after their 18 SeaCraft was found floating 65 miles
due east of Daytona Beach, FL. today July 26th it only makes sense
that the law needs to change....

Lil' Kenny made the suggestion that as cheap as electronics are
today that an affordable Epirb needs to be made available
to all boaters that travel into any off shore waters in the country..

ACR and the few others that manufacture these devices need to make
them more affordable !!!!!!!

Yes, the personal ones are available for around $200

Hense we as an organization CSC need to spear head a drive to lobby
Rick Scott (Governor of Florida), FWC, MFC to mandate that a location
device be on every vessel that traverses into the open waters of the Atlantic
or Gulf of Mexico !!! It needs to be LAW!

Certainly as an organization we have the clout to get this started!

So, who is on board in this endeavor ??

Lets make this happen ....

Amen Ken!

I`m hearing more than one life jacket may have been missing so that is good news.

Bump...

It got buried with other posts....:confused:

I am in agreement with the requirement of epirbs outside of state waters. It needs to be a federal mandate to have any teeth anyway. That said, I don't feel manufacturers need to be made to make them any more affordable than they are. Considering what it cost to do anything to our boat, the cost of the most high end epirb is nothing more than a drop in the bucket.

I may be mistaken,but didn't a law requiring Epirb's at fishing tournaments on the ocean and great lakes fail a few years back?.

I think it makes sense,but unlike most of us on this and other sites that are comprised of serious fishermen and boaters,there are a whole lot of yahoo's who only see boats as a fun thing,and would not support Epirbs as a requirement.Hell, a lot of them don't even have enough life jackets on board.These would be the people(not all but many) who would be against it.
I always wear an inflatable life jacket when I'm on the water,and have also been thinking about an Epirb.I watched a 30' boat sink in a matter of minutes,fortunately they were only a few miles offshore,and were all rescued by boats in the same area.
Had they been twenty miles offshore it may have been a different story.
It took forever for the Coast Guard from the Niagara station to get to the sinking.

I would be a big supporter of Epirb requirements on big water.

In light of recent events, it occurred to me that I should have one, even on Lake Ontario. I'm not even sure if the 23 would even float, so being in the (cold) water here for very long would be an awful way to go. We do have a ditch bag that floats with flares, horn, handheld, etc., but we have become too reliant on our cell phones for communications.

I would agree that it's a good idea for offshore and even coastal boaters.

I don't think you can mandate a cheap price on a product. If anything, requiring the use of a product by law would probably increase the price, not decrease it.

Cost of my acr plb was about $350. About the same as one of those high quality gold reels that I see so many of around here. Don't see many plb's though...

I'm going to have to disagree. With freedom comes responsibility, people shouldn't be forced by the government to have these devices. Now before everyone gets their panties in a twist, I also think that seat belt laws, helmet laws, etc. are stupid. If you are intelligent enough to use these things to protect yourself, pat yourself on the back. If you choose not use them, then you face the consequences of your actions. Pretty simple IMO.

Copper, you are correct. Even us knucklehead "Liber-Terry-ians "have them on the most utilitarian Seacraft in existance. Note the non-skid dash!

This has turned into a very sad situation.

However, the only reason most of us are here typing comments today is because we survived the "Don't tell mom", the "Double dog dares", the "You'er not chicken?" and the "Let's go for it" long enough to get through puberty. Mother Ocean has swallowed up many a mariner from cabin boys to admirals, since man decided to go down to the sea. Over the years, we just survived long enough to developed scar tissue and stored away some "well, that hurt" or "crap, that was a close one" in our memory banks for future referance. Sometimes, what starts out as "fun" ends up as 'trouble'. We have all have been there and you know what I'm saying. Eventually you begin to understand that life is quite fragile, particularily when you bury some of your friends.

May God bless and hold these two young souls in his grace.

"Note the non-skid dash"

Just looks like dirt to me!!! :)

Well said Terry. That GPS looks just like the one that I finally took out of my boat a couple of months ago. I kept it as a backup to my other GPS. I think it was about 20 plus years old. I bought it to replace my old loran that I saved up to have, instead of just the compass.

You also realize that you are not in control of your life as much as you believe you are. Everyday you wake up its a roll of the dice. If these boys had been 24 or 34 years old we would not be having this conversation. This is an emotional reaction due to the age of those involved.

I have the same gps right above my new $$$$ one. That particular unit performs a unique task that some of us still need. ;)

I myself have 2 epirbs on board, one in the ditch and another easy to grap.

The green screen on that one finally got so many horizonal lines in it I couldn't read it. I put a new white screen GP-33 on that scow a couple of years ago and it has bigger letters for us old guys to see.

The weird deal is I finally read the instruction on the TD conversions because I could never get the GP-31 to find anything. The trick is you go to a known, NEARBY Lat-Lon that you have an old TD for and adjust the offsets to get it to read the TD correctly on that nearby spot (I thought you could do it at the dock). If you can get a couple nearby, that's even better. I was within a couple of miles of the old TD I was trying to find. When I made that adjustment offshore and nearby, all kinds of old TD's read and the bottom machine jumped just as the numbers rolled over! The Furunos are good, but I suspect the software is not accurate enought to compute the possible TD parabolas at a 25 mile range. The problem is that like you, I've been at this so long I still have more TD's than Lat-Lon's. Get inside of a couple of miles and reset the wheels and they seem to be spot on. I had the first one for 17 years before I got the second one and actually read the instructions! But of course Kenny you know, "Real Men Don't Read Instructions OR Ask Directions".

I do not disagree with people being responsible for their own actions but unfortunately their decisions affect more then just themselves. emergency medical services, physicians, firefighters, police, etc... (not to mention loved ones) it takes precious time, money, and resources. Maybe we need to just learn from our experiences and try to make a better future for us out there...

I carry a fuel tank that is 140 gallons. At $3.00 / gal, that represents $420.00.

How expensive is a single purchase $300.00 to $400.00 EPIRB again?

Just asking.

PS: Note my slogan at the bottom of every posting I put on this site.

"Getting home is more important than getting there!

Plan accordingly!"

I`m mostly near shore because of electrical gremlins, but I do run n gun.

I got a PLB from Rich at Cape Marine Supply for 200 clams on special a few years back.
I really only brought it when going offshore or on friends boat`s. Not anymore.
Also due for a battery change.

Things happen fast out there.

All of those people choose their profession and know the risks of the job, they can walk away if they do not want to accept those risks anymore. We can learn from our experiences and we can make personal choices in our own risk assessments each time we go out to help mitigate those risks. However, I personally draw the line at the government mandating it.

you ever rode as a firefighter or emt/ paramedic ? apparently not. I do not think you completely understood my statement. no worries.

No, but I do understand your statement because I volunteered for a dangerous profession and accept the risks every time I go to work. For some of us freedom tastes a bit sweeter than others and we will hold onto it a little bit tighter.

We learn from others mistakes (and our own) and then hopefully make the right decision.

Bet you don't like speed limits either.

Covered in post 9.

Exactly. But we don't force a purchase by government mandate in a one size fits all approach.

Agreed

Last thing we need are more mandates and regulation.

Sorry, but ebirps should of been mandated safety devices years ago. The antiquated flares and whistles should of been done away with pointed ignition and carburetors.

For those who want more freedom from government mandates on proven safety devices I recommend ignoring them and just pay the price for your decision. That or try Mexico... you'll love it there! Do whatever you want.

Trust me, I don't like the addition of new laws when we already have plenty that aren't enforced as it is but do you really see altering existing safety requirements for vessels to include a proven, lifesaving device as intrusive government interference? To me it sounds like any mandate in your eyes is a bad one. Take off the Ron Paul glasses for a second and think about how ineffective current required safety devices are compared to what is now available and how it can improve boating safety.

Speaking of proven life saving requirements., those D tables that everyone enjoys so much in diving are based upon people that do not have a hole in there heart as verified by EKG, under 21% body fat, and can pass a PST (see minimums below). It cuts down the risk of DCS and AGE to a tolerable level. Should the government MANDATE that all PADI and NAUI divers meet those standards? After all it is proven, safer, and healthcare minimums are set by the government now.


Swim 500 yards breast/side stroke 12:30 or less
50 push ups
50 sit ups
6 pull ups
Run 1.5 miles 12:30 or less



BTW flares are far from antiquated if you know how to employ them correctly.

OR you can just have Mel run the boat. She's AWESOME!!!!! You come up and put your hand on the platform! She "spoils" Kenny and I.

I never leave without my whale oil lamp. I got my plb when the football players fished a day I remember. I don't usually bring it on reef trips near shore...

I still think flares are useful in many situations. At night when you hear some thing in the sky? Shotgun flare to the rescue. Hand held to light the runway.

Glad we are having this discussion.
Remember Trayder also resides where folks don't like firearms.

But then you will not be in correct cardiovascular shape or have the needed strength to dive safely.

Tell that to those fat ass turtles.

Are you refering to Kenny, Doug and I at Sebastian?
We brought home the bacon!
Even Spidey and his Cuz came out fur that!

I thought it was Spidey and his Cuz, which is also his wife? :eek:

Ummmmm, we live in the same state

What about life rafts, AIS, min electrical requirements? Where does it end.

I know personal responsibility is getting to be a thing of the past but I still beleive and practice it.

We could go all day on tit for tat... building codes, bridges, planes,.... pic your topic. Bottom line PLDs are already mandated for documented and commercial vessels regardless of size so there is no big stretch or unreasonable expense to apply that to recreational vessels venturing offshore past state waters. It's reasonable, applicable and you won't find a seasoned mariner that has spent any amount of time offshore denying their value.

I read an interview with a SARs team Coastie stating that EBIRBs and type 3 pfds with strobes provide the best chance you will sleep in your own bed if faced with an maritime emergency. There is a lot of weight in that statement and it should bare consideration to those owning vessels capable of venturing beyond the last channel marker.

Should there be a mandate to extend the federal mandates to all vessels venturing into federal waters? Personally I think there is merit to consider such in some degree. You and Tryader, obviously not. Maybe a registry of boaters not wanting to comply would be in order so that the CG doesn't have to waste millions of our tax dollars for boaters that would opt to make SAR more difficult and costly than it has to be. But then again I don't feel a dime should be spent treating treating traumatic head injuries suffered by motorcyclists who don't wear helmets nor should any recovery attempts be made if I don't surface from a 350 ft trimix dive.

Also just for the record, I would not be against the mandate by any means, I have had an EPIRB or equiv for well over 20 years along with a few PLB's, never leave the dock with them, on my boat or others. I am just not for more govt regulations on items that should be common sense. As for reducing search and rescue, sure, but much like everything else there will always be folks that do not adhere to govt rules and will need help regardless. all of this seems like a knee jerk reaction to the recent events, which suck (the events not the knee jerk)

I'm not necessarily against requiring locater devices on all off shore boats. What size boat would be considered, or would it just be if you are caught offshore. I sometimes see people in jon boats out further than 3 miles.
The op implied that the devices should be made affordable and required. My point about that is, affordable and required is not how things work out.
I just checked the price of 4 boat flares at WM, almost $28. Six not for boat flares, about $14 (plus a handy traffic vest). What is it that makes the boat flares so much more money, the uscg approval, the way they are made (they burn differently), or could it be the requirement.
I carried a box of 30 minute flares around for years (not the same ones) and never had a problem getting them to light. They stayed lit in the rain. Like anything else, you had to check them once in a while. If the whole box got soaked, it would need to be replaced. I keep my boat flares in watertight container, but I would imagine they need to stay dry as well.
That stated, I see the day coming that every boat will need to have a locator that is on at all times.

The point of going tit for tat is that while my example is proven and the PLD is proven, people believe one isn't ridiculous while the other they believe is. To me that means that this reaction isn't really about taking life saving measures, it's about feel good measures, which also inadvertently mandate a purchase of a product and chip just a little more freedom away from the populous.

Think of it this way, You see a girl at the bar and you offer her $1,000,000 for a BJ. She says yeah, but then you tell her you don't have the mil, you only have $5. She gets all offended.

You already know where her morals are at the $1,000,000 offer, past that you are just negotiating the price. Same goes here and with every other topic of giving the government more power/authority.


As I said before if it's because the two are 14yo, say it was two 34yo men, would we really be having a multi page thread on here? Would we really be demanding PLDs on all boats?




Preciously, it's easy to jump to an over the top mandate without going into the details about it. When you get in the weeds of how to apply that mandate, punishments for breaking that mandate, who will monitor the mandate, how will they monitor it, who will be governed by that mandate, how exceptions are given out, why those exceptions are given out. It turns complicated fast, just like everything else the government touches.