Seaworthiness of 20' SeaCraft...
 

Hello everyone! First, I want to say thanks to everyone who contributes to this amazing resource! Second, I want to gain an understanding of the seaworthiness of a 20' SeaCraft. For the sake of narrowing the breadth of the discussion we'll eliminate Captain's ability as a factor and focus on the ability of the hull. At some point we can all agree that no matter the ability of the Captain the boat shouldn't be offshore. What is the point at which a perfectly functioning 20' SeaCraft cannot safely be run offshore?

Parameters

20' Seacraft CC with 400lb outboard on a bracket
Assume all the requisite safety gear epirb, lifejackets, etc
Assume all the requisite hardware seacocks, lights, etc

Thanks!

With an enclosed transom and outboard that is in good running shape why not run offshore?

I apologize I must have miscommunicated! In my reading I have found that almost no one has anything negative to say about the hulls offshore performance. That being said no one is specific about what conditions the hull can take either. I understand that a captains ability is an overwhelming factor as far as safe operating conditions are concerned. I simply wanted to ascertain at what point do a captains abilities become irrelevant because conditions are just to harsh. Hope that clears up my question! A senior member pointed me towards some reading material so I'm going to go read that now.

Regards,

EarToTheWater

all relative
 

I thought of the plaque that JFK had, O,God, thy sea is so great and my boat is so small, today, when I came upon this Loggerhead turtle hatchling 10 miles out and no place to hide.

Ironically enough I was thinking the same thing when this dolphin came up to the boat... I stuck my phone in the water was able to freeze frame this (Life Proof Case) Grandpa had an embroidery of that quote with a man in a row boat hanging in his house till the day he died... hangs at my uncles house now.

The 20 is a " majic carpet ride". It will take you far. I find its able to handle anything I felt comfortable in and more. It's a 20' boat. You may get wet when it gets rough and you may wonder what the heck your doing out so far in this crap but pucker and grip the wheel the boat will get you back.

In seaworthy condition the boat will take more than you will.

WOW! Cool picture, very cool.

This just me. 3 to 5 it's uncomfortable and I won't go
4 to 6 no way unless your caught out there.
Why tempt the fates
And usually I want catch anything anyways and there are plenty of nice days to go out on anyways

But this is from someone that went to Bimini in a 17 checkmate. ..oh to be young and fearless again..or is it stupid

Thanks! I see some have added spray rails (worth it?), but generally when I have pucker moments I'm wearing gear or to focused to care! Most of my pucker moments involve lightning so gripping the stainless wheel may not be the best thing... considering carrying a wooden spoon to steer with:D

You trying to say I ain't got guts? :D In all seriousness your probably right as I've already been in that situation with other boats. Trying to ascertain if the 20' will get me enough fishable days, or if I should think about bigger boat.

Thanks! It was definitely a special trip!


Just the kind of info and specifics I was looking for! I'm all all about pushing the limits, but I love fishing! So if conditions are so tough a trip has the potential of being my last trip then I'm heading in! No fishing trip is worth it being my last fishing trip!

If you have a large enough tow vehicle . . . get a 23 or 25.

Going offshore where would help to better inform you ??
(We have members all over the world !))

I have run my 20 SF from Daytona (Ponce Inlet) to 50 miles out !!
Crossings from Florida to the Bahamma's... :eek:

In the keys to the Islamorda hump in 14ft seas !

As Ryan said the SeaCraft can take more than you....:cool:

Thanks for replying! 23' would be awesome just don't think owning one is maintainable for me right now... there is nothing worse than getting in a pinch and having to sell! I'll definitely look into it more though! I'm willing to put off what I want right now for what I really want in the future if I think I'd be happier in the long run!

Thanks! Ironically enough I'd run out of Ponce 80% of the time. 10% Keys 10% Maybe Bahamas. 14ft sounds like fun:eek: What interval?

I always get nervous when someone asks what is the worst conditions a particular boat can handle. I have an 18 and love it. I have found it to be very seaworthy but I still pick my days carefully. The weak link is the low transom. If you get one with a 20" make sure you have a good seal on the deck plate and a splash guard. If I was doing a lot of off shore I would want a 23. There is a picture on Classicseacraft of a 20 sitting next to a 23 (stern shot) and it tells the tale. The 23 looks like it has twice the freeboard that the 20 does. Heck it looks like the 20 would fit inside the 23. The 23 is a MUCH more robust off shore vehicle.

Good luck.

Rob

I owned a 20 Seafari model for some 7 or 8 years. Never had it out in anything that even vaguely challenged the safety of the boat, worst was 4-6 Gulf Stream with a 20 knot crosswind. I've been out in my 25 Seafari in much rougher conditions, Gulf Stream steep 7 ft following sea, 8 ft super steep and breaking beam sea with a 30-50 knot cross wind. Both of those had a high pucker factor, but neither would have been really dangerous for a 20 with a competent skipper, as long as the engine ran. I'd have not wanted to be there if the engine quit on either boat.

I don't think there are any "normal" conditions that would be truly dangerous in a well piloted 20. You would have to have special conditions, breaking seas in an inlet, huge following seas that were breaking where the depth shallowed up fast, or something similar.

Interesting question, though.

Connor

So we don't get carried away.... In a real, storm pushed following 6' seas (measured at the center of the wave) any and I mean ANY 20' and possibly 23' foot boat can be in very serious trouble. This is especially so with CCs that can take on so much water if the bow goes in that swamp and roll is possible.

Many of us have been unfortunate enough to end up in seas that we should not or did not wish to be in. Some of us including myself have foolishly done so on purpose. I think making recommendations for sea states that a 20' boat is capable of safely negotiating is subjective at best. With the right person behind the helm our boats can get us out of trouble in a pinch but in no way would I recommend heading out offshore in anything more than a forecasted day of 2-3'. Too much can happen too quickly offshore and a 20' boat is not something you want to be in when things get big and ugly regardless of how prepared you are.

This is a pic of a hefty 22' cc I found 30 miles offshore. I did my research and found out it got swamped and rolled in a bad afternoon storm in less than 20' of water off Homosassa. The forecast that day was 2' or less with isolated T storms in the afternoon. I have to wonder if the captain opted to take on the storm on the way in or just couldn't find a way around it. There were no casualties as the occupants were picked up by another vessel after the distress call was made. Salvage was refused by the owner. I guess that was enough boating for him.

I get nervous too! Generally if someone has to ask that is not a good sign! If I do go with a 20' the 20" transom wouldn't stay that way for long! I'll definitely try to hunt up that picture! Thanks!

Loss of power definitely escalates a situation quickly! Great info thanks for the insight!

I compare being offshore to drifting a car. No matter how good you are you are still trying to control a wreck:D. I agree that there are far to many variables to consider to really nail it down, but I also think there is much to be gained from a healthy discussion! The more people chime in the more I'm thinking your right keep it in the 0-3' maybe 4' depending on interval, wind, long term forecast etc otherwise don't head out. Thanks for sharing your experience!

I think the t top on my 18 is it's most limiting attribute. In a windy enough situation and caught in a trough, she would broach for sure. An 18 or a 20 with no top, an enclosed transom or splash board, properly designed scuppers, a light motor and load would be hard to stop.
You can't push the open transom issue enough...probably the factor that led to the recent tragedy. That 18 had an open transom with no board.

Out west (CA)I feel pretty comfortable in a 20 Seafari with a 300 lb 20" motor. An extra 100 lbs not so sure....But a 25" transom is a no brainer and a splash wall around the splashwell is a definite plus. My Seafari 20 handles 2-4' mixed-up slop fine, and even better if the if the form is consistent. But come 3' at 18 knots in mixed up seas, and you're doing X-Games tricks. And while she lands pretty softly, and you don't always know if you'll land in the same direction you were going. I call that enrolling with nature. In a CC these same conditions would definitely give a bit more pucker factor.

Not sure if this is what Beaver was thinking of but, here you go:

Low transum is a major factor I wasn't thinking about, CC too. I guess it depends on the individual twenty. A Seafari with a full transum or good transum box is pretty hard to stop. I would not have hesitated to go offshore in a 4 ft forecast(when I had younger kidneys), unless I was forced to run a long way straight into it. Thats not a seaworthy issue, much more my kidneys.

I guess the real danger is either sticking the nose into a sea( in a CC) or taking a big one over the stern in any 20. Seems like either is unlikely for a competent skipper, at least in wave heights (face height) of 8 ft or less. But Moose has a point. It can change real fast, especially on the Florida west coast. Big afternoon boomers can generate some incredible steep waves in very shallow water, and very fast.

Steepness matters much more than wave height. I took a big one all the way over the stern of my 25 I/0 in an inlet, but I was doing something really stupid. The same height wave offshore would have been a non-issue.

Although the forecast changed on me, I took my 18 out of Oregon Inlet a couple years ago and had a nice ride out to the point. After fishing for about an hour, the wind picked up quite a bit and suddenly the seas were 4-5' and rather close together. Made a wise decision to start heading in. Took quite awhile, but, made it in safely and the 18 handled it beautifully.

Agree, steepness and interval mean more to me than wave height. Now, I generally wait for 1-2 feet. I didn't use to worry about going out in 6 ft seas in my 18' and sometimes higher when I was younger. I got to the inlet one time in my 23' cc when it was only 2-3 feet offshore and there were standing waves in the middle of an outgoing tide, full moon. The waves were a good six ft from top to bottom and the bow was into one wave before the stern was off the other one. About two feet of the wave came in, hitting the console and putting a good deal of water on the deck. It may have been better in that instance to not have a splash well door. I think, with enough power, I could have got the 18's bow up enough to go over, instead of through the second wave.

Thanks for hunting that photo down! 3' didn't sound like a big difference but judging from that photo it's a big 3'!

Thanks! Those TUUCI umbrellas seem like a very nice compromise! The light motor seems like it would be second in priority only to fully enclosed transom. Ability to plane at low speeds 12-13 adds alot in terms of seaworthiness imho.

Thanks! West coast Florida drives me crazy its like driving in a shook up soup bowl! For some reason I keep going back though:D must be Boca's blue waters! If I ever have kidney stones I'll make the run in those kinda seas seems cheaper than payin a doctor to break'em up with ultrasonic waves:D

Thanks! Did that happen heading out of Sebastian?

Thanks! A close 4-5 is no joke! I have no problem slowing down if the situation requires it! I love how ya'll say they plane at low speeds that's a huge plus! I looked at the 18's but I'm biggin enough to count for 2 people :D

EarToTheWater have you ever taken a ride in any SeaCraft ?

If not and you want to experience it in a 20 SF
or Lil' Kenny's 23 Sceptre.. :)

I will be more then happy to charge out Ponce so you
can see first hand what the boats are capable of !!

Keep in mind Ponce is rated the 8th worst in the country !

Been in Daytona my whole life so our inlet is second nature to me !

Out going tide incoming wind will prove to you the seaworthiness...:cool:

Count me in! I've only seen one seacraft in person, and I've never ridden in one! I didn't know ponce was rated that bad the only thing I've had to compare it to is sebastian, stuart, lil gasparilla pass, and boca grande pass... lol I guess it's one of those things where you'd have to have been enough places to know better:D

I was looking at the pic of the 20 and 23 transoms side by side. It occurs to me that the 20 Master Angler cap (which is raised several inches) might not be much lower than the 23.

I have one and run it with the splashwell door and a stock 20" transom. It is a great little boat. I have had it in 7-8 footers off Horseneck beach. I didn't WANT to be there, but the seas and sand bars gave me no choice. I could only see maybe 60 feet forward and 60 feet behind me while I was planing in the trough between waves- I couldn't see over them!

What I learned from that was:

1 Don't do THAT again!
2 A low planing speed saved my butt.
3 The motor working flawlessly was crucial to getting out of there.

I can plane at very low speed because I don't have a bracket, and I have a sub 400lb outboard and a hydroshield flying wing under the skeg. I can get it down to just under 10 knots on a soft plane.

I also think my splashwell gate on the 20MA is as high as a full transom on a 20CC.

Additionally, I have 150lb or so of floatation foam under each cap on the 20MA. This should make it much harder to turtle if you ever "dip a rail". Plus a hull full of foam.

As much as everyone says that a 25" transom is better, I have never had an issue with the 20". I am a bit careful backing down on fish. I might be a bit more cavalier with a 25" transom, but I haven't had a problem yet.

With respect to a bracket: not only is handling adversely affected with respect to planing speed, now the boat is very close, if not in excess of a 3:1 length to width ratio, which makes it a little more likely to capsize.

In my opinion, for seaworthiness, I would think about a splashwell gate and a light motor and maybe a master angler. And any repairs should respect the light build of the original- no plywood, no 200hp outboards, batteries should be forward, and no giant livewells in the stern. And a well maintained motor that won't hiccup at a bad moment, and a clean, well filtered fuel system.

As for seas? I get my butt kicked in a Buzzards Bay chop. I swear it is only 18" on top of 2 footers, but 5 feet apart with a 15 knot breeze on top makes for a perpetual salt water shower. And I stay dry riding between 7 footers I can't see over. Even though I need to change my underwear afterwards in either case, for one reason or another. :D

Thanks for replying! Saltwater showers are just part of the game hopefully the fishin is so good you don't think about it:D How'd you do the foam under the cap? Sealed or no? Master Angler with light motor definitely seems to be the hull to go with if one can't swing a 23'! Nice to hear the 20" can be compensated for, and is not the end of the world. I'd probably end up raising it though just because I can't leave anything alone:D Interesting to me the perspectives on the brackets seem to leave no middle ground (read the sticky and various other posts). Issues where there is a lot of experienced respected people on both sides are always tough:confused:

So this is happening in my backyard right now (Lake Erie south of Buffalo).

An empty boat washed up on shore about a mile south of my house yesterday. Coast Guard and AFR have been searching for about 18 hours and just flew overhead right now. This is a pretty knowledgeable group. But this is a good reminder that safely getting back in is as much about what you do before you leave the dock as it is with the rig under you and how you operate it.

Ouch. Excellent point!
I want to install a swim step on the transom but for now I use a collapsible swim ladder in the splashwell when I go singlehanded. I can do it without, but only just.

Agreed!!!! Preparation goes a long way in the context of safety and returning home!

Swim step is a must! The odds of you being 100% able after unintentionally being thrown out of the boat are slim!

If you get to the ramp and it looks like this.. don't go.

Duly Noted :D:D:D

That's the photo! That says it all.