1977 SeaCraft Seafari 2006 Etec 150
 

Guess it's time I bring this up for thoughts prior to the scallop get together. I'm overall very impressed with my purchase, the quality of workmanship, and the price paid. However I have questions about performance. The 20 inch transom was redone with Okume plywood and overbuilt, as seen by a core sample given to me at purchase. The 20 inch outboard had been previously mounted in all four holes, as seen by wear marks of all four. She is currently mounted in third from top, and the previous owner stated that was best performance, with cavitation plate even with keel, including the Viper SS prop. I now have the prop lock key, here in SC, but Frigg It!!! is in Florida so I do not know prop size yet. I had brought her back to SC to have my guys here raise the engine one hole. River tested and she very quickly overheated and went into limp mode. Back to the shop and the engine was lowered to third hole just hours before my last trip to Hernando Beach. No problems with temperature issues but at WFO she again went into limp mode, in the freaking HB Canal. Threw the anchor and waited. Primed the bulb, which I've never had to, and she fired. Thought maybe she had pulled air. I assisted with the nightmare of installing the NMEA cables thru the loom, and the ducer cable back thru opposite direction. The (factory?) blue fuel line from the hose barb located dead center of block to the EFI rail, was removed for some reason and replaced with black ethanol compliant fuel line, causing me to have some doubt. Also, I've been told that outboard may require a trip to a dealer to have the overheat code cleared before getting back to full RPM. I know. A lot of variables. I do not think this arrangement will hold plane much below 3K, which sucks. This is without using tabs.

Hit submit instead of preview. Hopefully Kmoose will be in attendance to help with transducer. Not reading crap above idle. The engine information to the 94sv/CHIRP is spot on with analogue tach, which has not been removed yet. 4200 was 11.? Mpg. 3800 brought it down 8.? Mpg. It's really not as nice a set up as Denny's Smart Guage, in my opinion.

During the test drive with engine raised I did not get a light on the traditional smart Guage, just a solid audible. I was alone and could not check water temp nor the height of the cavitation plate. Seriously surprised me. At this point I am certain of nothing and open to thoughts. Thanks in advance.

Vezo, Part II

Michael,

Glad to hear you hooked motor up to chart plotter, so you can use the NMEA system to read engine data from the EMM (Engine Management Module)! Generally I don't think those System Check analog tachs are accurate enough to use for selecting a $300-500 prop! Yours is the first one I've heard of that's accurate! It's really false economy to not spend $200 for a good gauge to keep an eye on a $10,000+ engine!

Here's a few suggestions and some answers to your questions.
1. Join the E-TEC Owners Forum! If you use the search function and spend a couple hours on there, you will find tons of useful info about your motor! That site is very much like CSC, with several very knowledgeable techs and BRP engineers on there who can answer any questions you have! Forum member jimh is an electrical engineer that can answer almost any question about hooking up the motor to a chartplotter to read out engine parameters. (They like you to post your engine model and serial no. with your signature, both to weed out trolls, and so that they know exactly which model you're asking questions about!)
2. The I-Command Gauge will list fault codes if EMM detects a problem, and I would think you could also get that info out of the NMEA/chart plotter set up. It will set different codes for engine or EMM overheat, so you need to know if it's the engine or EMM that's getting hot! The water that comes out the tell tale in the back is the same water that cools the recirculated fuel in the Vapor Separator Tank (VST) and also cools the EMM, so check to make sure you're getting plenty of flow there and that the water coming out isn't super hot; sometimes folks run aground and pick up small shells and stuff that can plug the cooling coil in the VST. That cooling circuit is a high volume/low pressure system, so if you leave a quick disconnect fitting in there for flushing the motor, make sure the hole in it is AT LEAST 3/8" in diameter so it doesn't restrict cooling flow to the EMM and VST! I use a brass fitting that's 1/2" in diameter. (Note - BRP sells a quick disconnect flushing attachment fitting, but it's for the big block V-6 ONLY! - the 3.3/3.4L 200HO/225/250/300 hp motors, which have a different high pressure/low volume WP tell tale like most other motors.)
3. Order a factory service manual for the motor from Barnacle Bill, who pays for Forum, for about $85. (see ad at top of home page on Owners Forum; they only take phone orders) If it saves you a trip to the dealer, it will pay for itself! It should say if you have to use the diagnostic software to reset an overheat fault code. I'm at my daughters place for a few days or I would check my manual for you.
4. Barnacle Bill's also sells the cable to connect the EMM to a /Windows laptop and the diagnostic software if you want to do all your own maintenance and troubleshooting. (I think software is about $300.) I bought the cable, but have never had a problem with the motor where I really needed it. Since motor is now over 10 years old with over 600 hrs on it, I may eventually get the software too, especially if I were to do a Bahamas run! The software will display an engine history report of the entire history of the motor, including all fault codes detected and histograms (value vs. % of time at various levels) for RPM, EMM TEMP, and right and left cylinder head temps, since the motor was new!
5. Do you have a water pressure gauge? Good to have when raising motor, but I'm surprised you had a problem if you raised motor 1 hole from where AV plate was flush with keel. Capt. Terry's is at 3/4" above keel and that put his AV plate above solid water. Mine is 6" above keel with 30" of setback and I've had no overheating or low water pressure problems. You can either add a mechanical WP gauge or a BRP water pressure transducer and display value on chart plotter, but then you (or dealer) would have to use the diagnostic software to tell the EMM to look for the transducer!
6. How long has it been since your water pump impeller was changed? On a 2006 vintage motor, it should have been changed in 2009,20012, and 20015. If motor sat for a long time, those impeller blades can take a set, so it won't pump like it should. Also, is sonar T-ducer mounted on bottom ahead of motor where it could disturb water flow?
7. Do you know what your WOT rpm is with that Viper prop? (Optimum for your motor is 5300-5500 with the load you typically carry.)The Viper is BRP's bow lifting speed prop that most dealers fit as a best guess, but if you want something that hangs on plane at low speed with good hole shot and better fuel efficiency, a 4B might be better, and I have 4 different 4B props you can try when I'm over there next month.
8. My fuel lines, which have never been changed, are all black, so don't know where a blue one came from. You'll have several different lines - one between lift pump and hose barb that connects to boat tank at front of motor near rigging tube; another from lift pump to on-engine filter to HP pump; and another one from HP pump discharge to the "fuel rail"/manifold to the injectors, and then another manifold returning the heated fuel from the injectors (which are cooled by the fuel) back to the VST. There is a small conical mesh filter inside the nipple of the VST return line that was almost completely plugged with some black tar-like stuff on my motor after using e10 gas for over 6 years from new! Since I have two 10 micron filters between boat and HP pump, I suspect the black goo was from the fuel lines that were being dissolved by the ethanol! The same stuff was evidently starting to clog the injectors too, as motor was starting to run rough, but only at 900 rpm, so BRP just replaced all my injectors under warranty! Have run nothing but Rec 90 ever since and motor is running like new! Checked the little VST filter last year, and it was clean, so I decided not to change fuel lines on motor. Denny

Thanks for the reply Denny. I think I had a brain fart. The transducer HAS to be the culprit of the over heat. Kmoose is coming to assess the selected location for the transducer. Makes perfect sense. I think we're onto something there!

Vezo.

Mike, Be careful trying to run your motor too high in HB, Bayport, Homosassa, CR. Those 20 or so Roller Trawl shrimp boats tied up behind Zig-Zag's spend the night "Mowing" the flats off shore. The stuff gets wrapped around the lower unit and eventually shuts the water off to the intakes. I stopped three times on Saturday running back from 55' because the temprature gauges started climbing above 178. Slowed her down, backed it down and they settled back to 162. I stopped between the Bird Rack and BP Channel marker the last time. With the Gulf water temp. at 84 degrees, it's a hop, skip and a jump to overheating if you'er not watching what's going on.
FYI - Dennis' guys at Gulf Coast Marine two miles north of you in Weeki are really good E-Tec mechanics. And Bob's guys down in Largo at Suncoast Marine 50 miles south of you are absolutely the best on E-tec's. They end up with all the "we can't figure it out's" on the West Coast of Florida. I'm not sure why you dragged it all the way back to SC other than to show it off - it is a cool boat though, so I'd probably do the same!

Mike, Can you post up a pick of your transducer location?

Ken, I cannot until Sept. 1st when I get back. But I took your advice and went closer to center than original transducer of the antiquated original unit. But I am not afraid to go back to that mounting location, or create another set. Transom appears she may out last my lifetime.

Terry, the only reason I dragged her back here is because Weeki wanted $99 to raise the engine. Not unreasonable. Two weeks? Uh, No. I was talked out of going up two holes to the top, and never expected this result. But I think Denny nailed it. The new transducer is effecting flow over pickups, and not reading bottom above idle. I did not ignore your advice of Weeki as a solid Etec shop. Thanks all.

Part II

Yeah, something weird is going on. Give me a call when you get in and I'll come over and check it out.

$100 bucks to raise a motor is nuts, at least on an Evinrude, with the slots on the lower bolts! If you have a nose wheel on trailer, all you have to do is lower trailer tongue, put a block of wood under skeg of motor, pull top mount bolts, loosen lower mount bolts, and then have a helper crank up the nose wheel/front of trailer until top bolt hole on motor is where you want it and reinstall and tighten bolts (after making sure they're well sealed! - I like to use Life Caulk which never completely hardens, although Don Herman uses Silicone sealer; he fills entire lower slot with silicone.) Should take all of about 30 minutes!

I was thinking the same thing. I adjusted the height on my 250 and 300 with a block of wood and the trim motor.

I agree guys. Soon to be step- nephew-in-law has marine business up here and a fork lift. Job just wasn't completed until after dark, evening before a week long trip to HB, with my brother renting a big house there for his family. Tommy (my brother) fortunately convinced me to river test that night, heating everything in a very short run of normal speed. I knew that lowering back to original height was not a reasonable solution, but a lot of tension and rum was involved, and I had never thought that transducer may have been to blame.

Mitch, (FlexPat) called today. A lot of variables. He has convinced me to replace water pump and have code possibly cleared. Then I think I'm going to go back to my favorite performance enhancer. A Bobs Machine Shop 5 in 1 manual jack plate. The ability to dial in perfectly to the correct prop is priceless. I do not want my cav plate even with the keel where the boat will spend the rest of its life, minus gatherings around the state.

Ken, when we get together we'll assess the transducer location. Still open to other ideas.

I'm 50/50 on the ducer being the problem. I agree, until you know for sure the impeller is good it could go either way.

Michael,

Changing the impeller is probably not a bad idea but I'd get the engine manual first to insure that you don't create any new problems. I had to adjust shift cable on mine after dealer did the 3-year service because they didn't check the shift shaft height as specified in manual before reinstalling LU! it's an easy job but there is a new procedure for seating the impeller that supposedly improves wp output. Barnacle Bill knows about it and will explain it to you if you buy the parts from him.

I would NOT install a jack plate however! Your motor is already too heavy for the boat, and a jack plate just makes the aft CG shift even worse! Capt. Terry is running basically the same motor (he has the HO version) on the same boat and his AV plate is on top of the water when it's 1 hole above flush with bottom, so about 3/4" up from bottom. So, unlike me, you should be able to raise the motor high enough without a jack plate! That $ would be better spent on a good 4B prop! Denny

Excellent suggestion! I'm all ears to be dialed by Scallop fest. Thanks Denny.

You could also just unbolt the ducer and zip tie it up out of the way to be sure it is or is not the issue.

ETEC Engine Height
 

MInor correction: On my Seafari with ETEC 150 HO, the A/V plate is 1.5" above the keel (the best I can measure it on my Hitchhiker trailer with a thin aluminum strip between the keel and the trailer support). The engine is all the way up, on the 4th (bottom hole) and have about a 2.0" gap between the engine and the top of the transom. At 30 mph Skippertee recently observed my A/V plate as just right. I am running a 13.5" dia prop, a five blade QST5 which provided the steadiest wakeboard speed and about 5700 WOT RPM.

Terry - thanks for correcting me! I forgot you raised the motor another hole after our initial discussion on motor height. Sounds like Michael should be able to run with his AV plate at 1.5" above keel!

Michael - got back home today and checked service manual regarding S.A.F.E. (Speed Adjusting Failsafe Electronics) mode and recovery etc. The EMM will activate SAFE mode if either the EMM or Port or Stbd cylinder head temp is above expected range (Code 25, 43, or 69 respectively). Once the sensor is within limits and RPM is reduced to idle, engine operation will return to normal, so you don't need the diagnostic software or have to see dealer to recover from SAFE mode. However, the EMM will go into SHUTDOWN mode with certain faults, such as excessive EMM or engine temperature, a NO OIL condition, or high RPM at low throttle position. (Codes 29,31, 33, and 57 respectively) For a code 29 or 31, the motor will not restart until that sensor cools down, but if it was shutdown for a code 33 or 57, the code must be cleared with the diagnostic software and the key turned off and on before motor will restart.

For further diagnostics, there are 4 red LED's on the stbd side of the EMM at the bottom center, just forward of the largest of the 3 wiring plugs. (You'll have to pull the black plastic shroud around flywheel on top of motor to see the EMM.) The EMM checks all the circuits and sensors every time you turn the key on, while your System Check Tach should be beeping and flashing lights. LED 1 (aft most light) monitors the charging/55V circuit. LED 2 monitors the Ignition/Fuel/Injection circuits. LED 3 monitors Sensors/5V analog circuits. LED 4 indicates No Oil/Overheat conditions.

With the key on but motor not running, all 4 LEDs should be on. If a code 57 has been set, LED 3 will flash! If a code 29,31, or 33 was set, LED 4 will flash!

With motor running, all lights should be off unless motor is running in winterization mode. If there is a problem with a temperature or oil pump circuit, or a sensor reads a temperature above expected range or no pressure, LED 4 will be on. If a code 29 or 31 was set, LED 4 will flash.

BTW, the type of prop you're running often determines how high you can run the motor. A good SS 4B prop with lots of cup can often run higher than a cheap aluminum 3B prop w/o much cup in the blades. Denny

Thanks guys, I think we're getting somewhere. 1.5 inches above keel sounds optimum to me. That would two holes up, and top. I think Ken and FlexPat's idea of temporarily removing the transducer to splash well is a solid one. Next, can I accurately attempt this with the Viper prop? I have received prop nut lock key from previous owner, as well.

Vezo

Michael, I think the Viper prop would be a good test because 3B props typically don't grip the water as well as 4B props. If it runs ok with the Viper with AV plate at 1.5" above keel, you can be pretty confident that it will be fine with a 4B prop! Capt. Terry has run his old Merc 3B prop that I believe had a tendency to slip a bit although it gave him good rpm and speed, but he's run several different 4B props that all seemed to grip the water ok, although he couldn't turn them fast enough. He may have even tested a Viper initially. Denny

Thanks Denny. You are welcome early, and first right to dock. My boat may stay on the trailer, (ramp), connected to the rig for ease of adjustments.

Looking forward to replaced w/p and hopeful adj. to engine height prior to your arrival. And temporary removal of transducer. Looking forward to testing props. Tabs are working properly.

Michael.

Git rid of Viper. Itz poisinus to skuatting fatazz seafari. no anti venm sept good riddents'

pointy end up n u pshes water waistn gas in eko moter. bad fer ducer to

stern liftr , no jak playt . fixit n scalups wil squert jump in yer pale. and git nuhther pale fer pink panti droper.:D

Exactamente !
That's what I've been tryin' to tell Mike - (?)
Viper - NFG
Bad grass here too. It'd choke a Weed Eater
Scallops are snickering!!!!

Burn out, burn out......

We are all left overs from the 60's.......;)

Fire one-up.........

Ken were you thinking bong?