New Member, Old Boat, Unsure of Year.
 

Hello All,

I’m new. I’ve been lurking for a while now and have been enjoying the site. A while back I came down with this irresistible urge to restore an old boat. That led to lots of research coupled with my personal preferences and to cut this story short I have a formerly unloved Seafari 20 sitting in my backyard under a portable garage. I think I saved it from being scrapped. I’m not in a rush and have been half-jokingly telling people I hope to have it all restored by retirement, which should be a long ways off. I should mention I’m no expert but I have worked with fiberglass before.

I got the boat with no outboard and a transom I assume is rotted. The hull otherwise looks pretty good. The worst damage I could find was what must have been a hit to the starboard rubrail which resulted in a little cracking at the joint and some stress cracking in the hullside gelcoat. The cap has been drilled into and will need re-coring too. I plan to take the boat down to the bare hull and build it back up using some of the newer synthetic core materials. I’d also like to eventually finish it off with an outboard bracket mounted to a full height transom.

My state doesn’t require it but I think I’d like to get a proper title anyway. The boat was last registered using another state’s registration number for its SN. I have the papertail on the boat but the last owner never registered it and thought it was a 1986, which was the year of the trailer. He only bought it for the outboard. I haven't had any luck in trying to contact the prior owner. I believe it’s an early 70s model and was hoping someone here might be able to help me pinpoint its year.

The original Seacraft tag is fixed inside the port cockpit area. The model is “20 OOB” and it has a four digit serial number starting with a 2. A few other distinguishing characteristics include a wide cut dual outboard transom (though it only had a single) and this boat has the four hollow stringers with foam between them.

Ken

Ken - 1972 and earlier seafaris won't have a HIN number stamped on the transom. They had a sticker right under the steering wheel with 4 or 5 digit Hull ID (model and Hull number). 4 hollow stringers is 1972 or earlier . . . 1970, 1971 or 1972.

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/...943_Medium.jpg

In 1975 or 1976 they changed a few things like the windshield design. The later windshield design is a split window (see picture). The earlier one doesn't have the split window.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/l...ghtFntView.jpg

There were no seafari's built after 1979.
http://www.classicseacraft.com/broch...production.pdf

pictures would help too Ken = )

Welcome aboard Ken, and thanks for saving a Seafari, one of the more rare but most versatile of all SeaCraft models! Big is right, you have a '72 or earlier model, but my guess is that it's a '72 if you have the load capacity sticker under the helm. 73 and later models had the sticker below the helm. Mine is evidently an early '72, because it has the sticker on the port side of the cockpit, just aft of the cabin bulkhead and below the teak trimmed shelf.

Regarding the new synthetic core materials, check out surveyor Dave Pascoe's thoughts on the subject! There is little test data on the newer materials; he likes end grain balsa core because it has much higher shear strength than the foams, and unlike the foams which don't naturally absorb resin, it wicks resin into the grain, so it bonds very well to fiberglass!

When you're looking over the boat for damage, there is one area on a Seafari that should be checked. There is a small bulkhead just forward of the head location (forward of the hinged lid between the bunks. That bulkhead is tabbed to the inner stringers with some heavy (~24 oz) woven roving, and if the boat was run hard in rough seas, sometimes that tabbing will come loose.

Good luck with your restoration and post some pics, which tend to stimulate ideas and suggestions from this gang!

Thanks for the replies. I’ll add some pictures when I’m home later. I suppose this would be the place where a jewel in the rough can be appreciated. The Mrs. and mom-in-law were recently giving me crap for building a bracket to hold the stern that was “nicer than the boat” (their words).

So it sounds like I’m looking at a 72 at the latest. Whoops, I meant to write port side not starboard side regarding the capacity sticker. It’s located in exactly the same spot as Bushwacker’s, just aft of the cabin bulkhead. By the way, pictures of your nicely restored Seafari and many others on this site were instrumental in leading me to find my own Seacraft. The red boat is new to me but she’s a beauty too. Before I even looked at the boat I knew it couldn’t be an ’86 from reading the material on this site and the Moesly site.

I’ve already read a good deal of Mr. Pascoe’s material while scouring the web for information. I’m not yet set on deck material(s) and that’ll be a way off, but I’m pretty sure I’d like to use Coosa board for the transom, which should happen much sooner. I do still occasionally waffle on whether to use a bracket or keep it simple and just build a well around a motor hung on the transom.

It’s funny you mention that little bulkhead between the stringers in the cabin. As I recall from when I looked over the boat that was repaired once, poorly. If my memory is right it's currently a piece of plywood tabbed in with a single layer of woven roving. My plan is to remove the cap and deck and rebuild from the bottom up so in the grand scheme that will get sorted out. The stringers themselves looked undamaged throughout.

I thought I had more "before" pictures. I'll be sure to take some from each stage of the operation. That first picture was how I found it listed on Craigslist. The white stuff on the bottom in one pic is Citristrip loosening some iffy bottom paint. There were lots of old barnacle spots under that. I haven't done much more than strip all the old junk out and cover it. I meant to get the trailer out from under it before the snow but didn't get that far.

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You've done an impressive amount of homework! Nice bunch of pictures! You've saved yourself a lot of work by chemically stripping the bottom paint. I had mine soda blasted and it did so much damage to the gel coat that I ended up having to fill and fair the entire bottom! At least you have a nice cabin door and steering wheel hub which are missing on many Seafaris that are this old! Do you have the windshield for it? That opening windshield is a great feature that you can't find on modern boats! If you're missing the windshield, try using the search function, as I think some poor misguided soul on here recently posted about planning to butcher his Seafari to make a CC model the hard way, so he might have a windshield he doesn't want! That thru hull on the port side indicates that it had the galley seat at one time; so do you still have it or is it MIA? That seems to be a pretty rare option, but one that I've found to be very useful.

Regarding the bracket decision . . . I think that depends on how you plan to use the boat. If you plan to run offshore a lot in big seas, it is nice to have that solid transom, and that big swim platform is nice if you're a diver. However if you can find one of the full height splash well tubs Potter started making about '76 or so, it provides equivalent safety, and the boat is balanced much better and will ride better without the bracket. Modern motors are so much heavier than the 300 lbs the 20 was designed for, and a bracket + heavy motor seriously screws up the balance on the 20! Don Herman popped a mold off of one of those brackets, but was going to scrap it so forum member Rickg rescued it and took it over to our gathering at Terry England's place last September. I think Terry, brother-in-law Doug, or Vezo II now have it. A good shop could make a nice part using that mold!

Do you have soft spots in the cockpit sole or front deck? That whole inner liner is bonded to the top of the stringers with Potter putty, so it's not easy to remove! You have a 4-stringer hull, which I personally think is stiffer and stronger than the later 2-stringer design; those stringers are hollow fiberglass and never seem to have any problems, so there is no reason to remove the whole deck unless you think you have a bunch of wet foam under it. It would be MUCH easier to just cut off the top skin and replace the core than to pull out the whole inner liner or even the top cap for that matter. And I think you can get to that forward bulkhead through the front hatch under the bunks. I think it's pretty well bonded to the inner liner, but Potter made a mistake trying to tab it to the stringers with such heavy roving, which is so stiff it doesn't like to make sharp bends. . . a couple layers of 1708 laid down with epoxy would bond much better!

Doug returned Dons mold to me back in the fall and I now have it here in SC, where I have much better resources to pop the first one. Having assisted with building nine Jersey Speed Skiffs from a mold over ten years ago, I have to say that I have never seen a mold in better shape. Definitely a 10 out of 10. Impressive.

I'd love to see a photo of this part installed because looking at the mold is like looking at an old photograph negative. Plays with your mind. Only other option is to build one then try to convert the 1976 SeaCraft Seafari, the Blank Canvas, I still have in the yard from I/0 to outboard. I'd like to sell this hull.

Vezo, Part II

Here are some pics of the splash well tub, I believe from a forum member who loaned his part to Don to make the mold. Don does great work, so I can definitely believe that it's a first class mold!

Thanks Denny! Looks similar to the splashwell on my 79 MA! And sure does serve a purpose. Now I wonder if anyone has a mold for the upper shroud/rod/cup holders and bait station/cutting board. I have one from a 25' SeaVee but have not attempted to match it to the splashwell. Cool stuff.

I have the ability, resources and facility to fill transom of 76 Blank Canvas Seafari, cut and remove original I/O transom cap, build to 25" and a splashwell. Be a cool project but probably financially an overall loss. For now, I plan to compound original gel coat and see what is still there. Minimal crazing for her age, and may not require wet sanding. Even the dog house/engine box is in great shape. Just hate to part her out because she's a very strong candidate for a complete rebuild.

Regardless, I am so happy Don did not crush the mold in his dumpster, and I was fortunate enough to acquire it. (Thanks Rickg!)

Vezo, Part II

A few months back I posted a photo of the splashwell tub removed from my late Seafari (link below). There is a little complexity on the lower surfaces that may look a little confusing on the mold. I thought this view may help visualize how it sits in the splashwell and along the inside of the transom. My Seafari had a 25" transom and there is no interference at all.


http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...352#post245352

Awesome! Thank you SSPBill! This thing is going to be a gift in the long run I believe. The superstructure Don secured the mold to is very SOLID and will make for consistent part results! Thanks again Bill. How's the weather up there? Fox News has flurries outside!!! I'm originally from the Jersey Shore.

Vezo, Part II

After looking at BigShrimpin's Seafari, is it safe to assume Most were I/O's from the factory in 20, 23 and 25'? I wish GAbildgerat was closer.

How would one go about getting one of those made and how much would it cost? I have a friend who would probably buy one.

Interesting question. Granted I am not Don Herman but I would not ship one out if it was not of quality to install on my own boat. Seems pretty cut and dry as for the build, but I'd like to ask Don what the schedule of make up worked best for him, assuming he may share that information with me. Also what he used to charge. I'm on disability, have a lot of free time, and honestly can't see this taking very long. However time, material and shipping would be a significant expense. The mold appears to only need a quick coat of mold release wax. Gelcoat color would be difficult to match, but not impossible with an accurate sample. Or the owner could take responsibilty of matching and ship. Can not possibly require a quart, I would guess. I think I am starting to hijack this thread and may need to secure the $25 fee for selling something here. Apologies in advance to Original Poster and Jason...

What do you think? I'd be happy to help any member increase safety and comfort to any member or Classic SeaCraft owner. Don't ask me how my splashwell saved my arse on the 79 MA!!!

Vezo, Part II

Almost an even split between I/O and OB on the Seafari 20. Here's your answer. The 25's were I/O only.

I did what I should have done in the first place and stopped at my town clerk’s office. She was able to check the old registration number and confirm I have a 1970. Registering the boat shouldn’t be a problem but they won’t title such an old boat.

The boat didn’t have a windshield (or the original galley seat). In fact when I got it, it had the remnants of a rotted homemade wood windshield frame still on it. Thanks for the tip as I’ll eventually have to find one or fabricate one.

Although it’s the ocean that does it for me I live around lots of lakes and will spend more time there. I’m also not likely to be out in big seas that often. From what you’re saying and from what I’ve read in other posts I think my only remaining reasons for a bracket are cockpit space and personal aesthetic preferences (more so with the uncut full transom than the motor hanging out back). I’ve fabricated a few fiberglass parts before so if I decide to skip the bracket I’d probably end up making my own splash well.

Regarding the deck, I’ll have to check, but I think the top skin is sitting on bare plywood now. At least that’s the mental image I have in my head. It may have been pulled up once already. I went into this as a project and I’m not trying to get in the water asap. I really do want to go over the whole boat and I think I may want to do a raised self-bailing deck.

I also started toying with the idea of raising the cap a couple inches. The boat was on at least its second rubrail and has more random screw holes along the joint than I care for, plus it has a small amount of dock or impact damage I’ll need to address anyway. Assuming I did a good job and put on a larger rubrail afterwards I imagine it wouldn’t look that unusual. I haven’t yet come across anyone that’s done this. Though time-consuming, it doesn’t seem like it would be all that difficult. Grind a little on the outside and more on the inside then build straight up a couple inches of extra hullside. I’d think with an epoxy bond and proper materials it should be about as strong as the original joint, possibly stronger if reinforced. Again I’m no glass expert so I’d welcome any insight if anyone has some to offer. I realize the cabin bulkhead would have to be accounted for and if I went this route I'd get rid of the drop down deck section and go to a shorter door.

I do like how accessible the joint is on the inside of this boat. It really leaves no excuse for not through-bolting that joint.

I think that’s what I’ve signed up for, and no worries about all the splashwell posts. I’m still in sponge mode, soaking up ideas and developing my plan, and that was all relevant.

ThanksDenny. Think I hijacked this gentleman thread or offered something for sale? Never meant to...

Michael.

very cool Ken, and yes we on the forum love and appreciate these boats!

If you want to follow through on raising the cap, do some research on vertical cg. The twenty is relatively narrow and will be sensitive to vertical cg. I remember mine as already a bit tender. Adding more weight higher might be more of a problem than a benefit.

I agree the look of an outboard on a bracket is sexy but from an engineering standpoint I think hanging the engine on the transom is a better solution as Denny has been educating us (or in general on the effect of moving the cg toward the transom). I don't recall who posted it but one of our more knowledgeable and connected brothers shared a quote from one of the SeaCraft Oracles regarding brackets (I forget if it was Mr Potter or Mr Moesly). It went something like "if you want more room, buy a bigger boat". That definitely speaks to the original design intent. I had my Seafari on Lake Erie last year and it ready did great in the short chop. I think your conditions on NH inland lakes will be very similar.

No problem. It's a little sloppy up here this week but generally a mild winter by Buffalo standards.

I agree. These are not beamy boats. With 4 gent's on board the splashwell tub and 25" transom really keeps the feet dry.

Again, thanks for the replies. I think I’ve been swayed against the bracket now. It's hard not to smile at profoundly simple statements like "if you want more room, buy a bigger boat". For me I think the bracket cons outweighed the pros considerably. I’m doing the transom anyway so I should be able to incorporate a tall splashwell that I’ll like, even if it’s a bit “busy” looking compared to a simple transom. I may even relook at the original splashwell and hinged gate, though the 20” cut is going to 25” regardless.

I understand the Seafari is a little more top heavy compared to the other models that use this slim hull, but would increasing the deck and cap by just 2 inches really be very noticeable? I know I’ve seen people put towers on these little boats which must be a more drastic shift in their vertical CG. Leaving aside the deck which isn’t much over water level, I’d think 2 additional inches of vertically extended hullside all the way around should only be about 10 square feet of roughly 1/4” to 1/3” thick glass. That should be on the order of 20 pounds-ish if my math is right. Admittedly, everything above that original hull joint would have a 2 inch longer moment. Would I be risking a greater severity or tendency to chine walk, or is it just that the boat will roll more while adrift?

It doesn’t sound like much but those two inches would mean keeping the stock gunnel height and in the cabin I’d be able to sit up without needing to cram my head under the windshield area.

Thats a research question. Off hand, I don't know the answer. Its not so much the weight of the extra glass as the additional leverage of everything else thats 2 inches higher .There have been several ways to estimate changes in cg,posted in these forums. Sorry, I don't have the location. Somebody else will. 2 inches might be insignificant or important. Play with the numbers.

I don't think chinewalking is an issue if you put the right engine on it. Mine had a 150 black max, more that enough power for offshore with a huge load and never any tendency to chinewalk, although flat out when it was light was beginning to feel a little bit unstable.

Having easy sitdown headroom in the cabin is huge , one of the things I love about my 25. Worth some change in cg, as long as its not large.

A Seafari is about 200 lbs heavier than a CC model, and most of the extra mass is in the cap, windshield, cabin door and bulkheads, but the basic hull weighs about 1600 lbs! My gut feel is that raising ~150 lbs a couple inches is basically a nit compared to the mass of the basic hull and bulkheads which aren't moving. I suspect that the effect on vertical CG is smaller than what you get when you mount a T-top with a fiberglass cover and an electronics box up about 7 feet off the deck of a CC model!

Also keep in mind that hull shape has a big effect on initial stability . . . the 20 has a relatively low (~18 degree) deadrise hull, so it's fairly stable at rest. I remember rafting up with Connor a few years ago on an overnight adventure up to Mosquito Lagoon, and I was surprised that his 25 was noticeably more tipsy than my 20 when I climbed aboard for dinner, despite it's 6" wider beam and heavy I/O engine and big fuel tanks deep in the bilge! It's vertical CG is probably lower than it is on my outboard model, but the difference is the extreme 24.5 degree deadrise on that hull, which is even higher than on Moesly's narrow 6.5' beam 25-30' race boats!

Ol' Pappy always comes thru with an interesting perspective! Gotta give it to him!!!

Part II

Thanks for the feedback. I’ll continue to give it thought. All I’m sure of at this point is the joint area will need work no matter what I decide. Simply drilling new holes into that already overly drilled glass would be just asking for trouble, plus it would bug the crap out of me to leave it like that.

It’ll probably be another month before I even get back to the boat, but let me ask one more question you’re all likely to have experienced opinions on. Assuming I hang a relatively heavy modern 150 on the transom and relocate the battery/s forward and under the deck, and assuming I build a fiberglass splashwell around the transom cut that comes close to the rear gunnel height, other than saving a little weight is there any advantage to going with a 20” outboard over a 25”? I understand the 25” has the advantage of having the powerhead further above the water and will be less like to suffer water intrusion from launching from a steep ramp. As I’ve dropped the bracket from my plan I’m not sure how big these advantages are now or if there’s anything else I’m overlooking.

That might have been me . . . Carla brought her folks by one day to show them my boat while I was installing the new galley seat! When I asked Carl what he thought of the bracket, his reply was "Why didn't you just make the boat longer?!" Easy for a boat builder to say (and do!)

He also noticed my clipboard with the "To Do" list, and said "I see you have the traditional boat owners job list, the one where you cross off one item as you complete it, and then add two more!" Really nice guy with a great sense of humor!

As for the weight difference between short and long shaft motors, I've seen anywhere from 8 to 15 lbs difference quoted on the E-TEC's, which I think would be easily offset by moving batteries forward. However some motors, such as the 115 E-TEC, use a significantly different gear reduction on the longer shaft version, like 2.25:1 instead of 2.0:1, so that would be something to check out on whatever motor you select. (Be sure you use wet weights when comparing motors, because 6 qts. of crankcase + gear oil adds another 11 lbs or so to the weight of a 4S motor!)

I know Capt. Terry stayed with a 20" motor when he repowered his Seafari and seemed a little concerned about the loss of freeboard at the transom, but he didn't move any batteries.

Regarding dunking the powerhead when launching from a steep ramp, I assume you're talking about a roller trailer like mine with minimal friction in the roller system. If you have a roller trailer, I'd strongly recommend using a PowerWinch on it, and you can use the winch clutch to control how fast it comes off the trailer. I normally just back the trailer in enough to get the tires wet, so water is shallow enough close to the trailer that I'm more concerned about boat hitting the ramp if it comes off too fast, but I've always been able to control it with the winch. I previously had a 2-speed Fulton manual winch that could free-spool, but it also had a brake on it that was very useful!

You know, Lee Iacocca never stopped by my Dad's house last year when we were buttoning up his 64 1/2 Mustang. I am so jealous of you FLA guys.

I hate quoting someone else when I am not 100% positive but this is one that stuck with me.