Ride comparison....23' Formula to 23' Sceptre
 

Some speak highly of older 23' Formula Cuddy ride.

Any experienced boaters to comment ?

had a 1981 Formula 233 LS with a single I/O 350

I really liked the ride even in 3-5 seas

Have not ridden on a 23 Septre yet so I can't compare, but the Formula rode great

I spent a LOT of time on a Bluewater 25 (which is essentially a fancy center console version of the 233 with a bracket). It's a great riding hull, so is the 23 SeaCraft. The 233 might be a little better straight into the chop, but you are splitting hairs again with this comparison. I know you like to fish, so I will tell you the drift of the formula hull is very tippy, where the Seacraft is much more stable.

Ah.....roll on drift is a factor. Interesting.

the 233 hull - it started it all ! lots of big name mfgs used that hull

Albemarle 24 - that's a 233 hull

24 blackfin - that's a 233 hull


better ride Bennett h,in the 233....up home,nj,a friend of mine stretched a 233,constructed the transom into a "euro bracket" - beautiful job


here's an interesting read....http://www.historicraceboats.com/pdf...rruns-v9n5.pdf

Poster refers to me as ..." Bennett H."...I once knew a man that called me that.

He was known to row a 16' wood skiff out to the tuna grounds, and come back three days later with a 500lber in the boat with 2" of freeboard due to the weight....
Haven't seen him in years.....wouldn't surprise me if he's out there alone on swordfish or marlin right now.

........by the way, got an Etec 200 HO that runs great. It's not for sale. Simple as that.......can't make it any clearer.,,,:)

I've spent a lot of hours crossing the Gulf Stream in several different 23 Formulas. Excellent boat running upwind or downwind in the Stream. Its not quite as good as my 25 Seafari, but close, which puts it in a rare class. It falls down because its WET and because it develops an incredible snap roll going slow in the wrong conditions. If you are not hanging on it will darn near through you out of the boat. Wet as in having to drive while wearing a mask and snorkel coming home with a moderate crosswind and 4-5 ft seas. This happened to us twice in conditions that would have gotten the Seafari's foredeck wet, but not much spray on the windshield.

Thanks all for experienced feedback.

I've been on both. They are very similar but the sceptre is more stable. I think the 233 formula is the best.

Just so happens I owned a 23.3 FleetCraft cuddy (Formula clone) before my Tsunami and can tell you with all certainty that Connor is spot on with his description. The Formula hull was faster by a few knots but very wet in the right seas as well as a nasty snap roll. I will also say the landing in a tight quartering gulf chop would rattle your fillings if you pushed the speed. Overall the Formula is a fantastic hull design and does some things better than the SeaCraft but the list is very narrow. All around the SeaCraft has a better ride in chop at any direction, far more stable at drift and a much dryer ride.

Here is a pick of the Fleet Craft. I took the DF250 off it and put it directly on the Tsunami so my power comparison was identical. I have to say, the Fleet Craft was a sexy cuddy.

Moose - some conversation on this site about Sceptre model tendency to list - port / starboard.
What's the story - all I've heard from enthusiastic owners to date is how great these boats ride, so much better than Wellcraft V20 , and other similar rigs........

BG - Search the site for "hook" and you'll find the story about a retired 23 seacraft mold ( that had developed a "hook" when potter sold the company). The story goes that the mold was put back into service when Tracker took over. There were a few 23 seacraft hulls that supposedly came with a factory hook.


Hmmmm . . . looks like you already know the story. Bennett are you trolling again?

http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...ad.php?t=28314

Not trolling Shrimp - the poster reports an issue with boat performance that would be important to current / future Sceptre owners.

I don't know that the hook would cause the boat to list........I've thought a hooked hull is just slower, with associated drag and also reduced fuel economy.

I'm aware of the general correction - to fill the curve to flatten out the hull.
Aside from top side weight distribution, I can't think of other reason for the list, and curious if it's part of the common hull performance or unique .

The story is there is something wrong... Tanks not baffled, improper tab placement, engine height, prop, captain.... This list goes on. I have many years on various Tsunami/Scepters rigged in every form and the listing described by a couple of folks is an anomaly with a cause, not a characteristic of the hull design or base layout.

This handling issue sounds like too much weight forward (extra large fuel tank), compounded by a heavy top, and potentially incorrect trim tab placement. This issue is not from the "infamous hook"

I don't have experience with the 23 formula hull, but I owned 2 Wellcraft V20's before the 23 Sceptre. The 2 boats are not comparable in terms of ride. I am sure the 3 extra feet has much to do with it, but the Seacraft can take bigger seas at much higher speed while still being comfortable. It just lands so soft! In the V20, I had to slow down to barely on plane in anything over 2' to keep it from pounding, while the same chop in the Seacraft is comfortable at 25MPH +. This is for similarly setup boats, both cuddy with outboard on factory transom and no tabs.

Moose's Fleetcraft is one of the hulls I was looking for when I bought my old Seabird. Did not realize it was a formula clone.

My 25 Seafari will also land very hard quartering into a chop, but it only takes a few trips to learn how drive the boat so that it doesn't land hard in those conditions.

It was a good boat and was fully restored when I bought it with a new 2004 DF 250 for $10k on a trailer. It was an offer I couldn't refuse and certainly played well for me as a capable dive and family boat.

When I first took it home it had a full transom with a 30 inch bracket. It was fast but in my younger days of wave jumping I broke the bracket and ended up notching the transom and mounting the motor on a 10" jackplate. The handling of the boat greatly improved with the motor closer to the transom. It was a rare boat and I wish I would have kept it for a different project. Have never seen one since.

Wellcraft V20 Story
 

If you do a search you may find a Bushwacker story of returning from the Bahamas with Reiland in his 21' Unoho and one of my best friends in his Wellcraft V20, which I had been in many times. They ran into big seas. Both the 20' and 21' SeaCrafts did fine. But the V20 was built and rode so badly it had cracks in it nearly 6' long. I helped my friend pull/reinsert the inner liner so he could repair it. I was appalled by the contruction under the deck. As I recall the stringers appeared to be 5/8" with one layer of roving up and over them. The glass was cracked where the stringer met the hull. He added much glass to it, filled in between the stringers with foam which then was glassed over. It was a much "quieter" boat going through the rough stuff thereafter. ironically to this thread, he replaced it with a 23' Formula which I also traveled in comfortably a few times, but never in any rough stuff.

I used to fish Wildcat area (50 mile run east of Boston) in my v20. Conditions that literally beat me up in the v20 don't slow me down in the 23. One of the best qualities of the seacraft is that is tracks straight in a following sea at speed. Following seas in the v20 are dangerous. Once you cleared the top of the wave in a following sea, your knuckles turned white. The bow digs in and send the boat shooting off to the side. It's not predictable.

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/...im_bigfish.jpg

Wow....tough V20 info, but I don’t see the V20/21 as an offshore specific boat.
It’s an easily trailerable classic looking rig with a lot of fishing room, storage and performance to fish bays and ocean on reasonable days.
A lot of room for 20 footer.

My V21 rides much better with the trim tabs as I can keep cutting edge of bow down,and through the chop.
Before tabs- yup, pounded too easily. With 200 HO Etec, performance is great- I often cruise the ocean coast at up to 35 mph based on conditions, and tops very close to 50 mph.

As for the Sceptre - good to continue hearing how great the ride is - perhaps one in my future.

I agree Big. There has been zero reports since 2002 on CSC.com that were associated with a production defect except the post Potter 23 Sceptre that had the hook from the bad mold. If anyone wants to talk CG and weight characteristics, I can address the Potter, SIC, and Tracker reports from the last 15 years here on CSC.com. My 23 Sceptre was a great ride crossing over to the Abacos and back. The ride on the bank was a tight chop. Best gas mileage was 3.1mpg on a 56 mile run from West End to Grand Cay with a full tank, 5 people, 500-750 lbs of stuff, and 3 large coolers. I burned 18 gals total. 300 Suzuki, transom mounted on the highest hole, 18.5 pitch 3 blade prop, no use of tabs, trimmed the motor to get the bow up to ride on top.