Call me crazy
 

The day has come, finally. I picked up my title to my 1971 Seafari 20 yesterday after months of effort. To be expected when it is a pre-'72 with no HIN, an out-of-state title in someone else's name than the person who is also out of state and a different state I got the bill of sale from, for free. But it is in my yard and I legally own it.

Now the fun part; the rebuild. Tell me if I am crazy or my plan is accomplishable, albeit with a lot of time and effort.

I want to convert the cuddy cabin boat to a center console boat. I know. If you want a CC get a CC, but when free boats were being given away all I could get was the cuddy. Additionally, I want to raise the deck a few inches and have it all one level, raise the gunnels to match for safety, no liner, add a formed in bracket, a Lefty Kreh style coffin box in front of the console and then the real kicker, stretch it a foot and a half to make it 21'. :eek::cool:

There are two ladies in my family, wife and daughter, who will be very disappointed if there is nowhere to pee. So, a larger console with a step down for a porta potty is very important. I am kicking around the idea of two 40 gallon tanks, one in front of the console and and one behind. This will mean deck space and bilge space will be very tight. Solution is extend the hull twenty inches and I will have the room I want.

I am on no timetable and budget is flexible. I will try to do all the work I can myself so I know the boat inside and out and also will not be paying for labor I can do. I have lots of ideas and want to make it perfect for my uses. It will be for inshore fishing in MA, runs to sandbars and waterfront bars/restaurants and when conditions allow offshore, but not too far. I do not plan to sell it. Ever.

Oh, I have no experience building boats, working with fiberglass, plumbing or electronics. But I can learn and I do have some skills. I didn't know how to build a fishing rod until I built my first one. Now I have a bunch. I work on my cars too when necessary and in my range of ability.

So, am I crazy? Go for it? What the hell, if I screw something up I will redo it until it is correct or worse case scenario, pay someone to do it. :)

Kinda sounds like getting a classic, hardtop car, making it a convertible and putting oversize wheels and tires on it. (just my 2 cents)

I did everything you mentioned and more on a 18SF and am now at the primer stage.
Over two thousand hours of labor, tens and tens of thousands of dollars by the time its finished, and more than four years since started. For me though the biggest cost has been the time spent that I could have been fishing or riding on a boat.

I’d probably never do a project on this scale again, but of course that may change after a few years of using this boat and forgetting everything above!

And if you screw something up, you can always redo it- it’s only fiberglass!

My advice is to keep the boat setup as a seafari. It's much much better for the ladies and pretty damn fine fishing boat for us too. Even if you do an incredible heroic seafari to CC conversion, the ladies aren't going to be happy. That's your best case scenario ;) I don't need to remind you how expensive the worst case scenario could be :)

If you are dead set on your "dreamboat" then you need 2 boats. First make the seafari work right away and keep the ladies happy. Then wait for a 23 cc project.


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Boat sleep is the best!!!!! I miss my cuddly cabin for post dive naps. Don’t do it.

I also think in really snotty conditions the enclosed foredeck is probably more seaworthy since it’ll shed water..

I really respect your opinions so let me explain my thinking a little more and see what you think then. The reason I want a CC is maximizing space. Having the bow area easily accessible means it is a great spot for someone to be fishing while someone else is in the stern fishing and even maybe another person midship too. I am thinking bottom fishing for Haddock, Black Sea Bass, Tog, etc., livelining for Stripers, and just two people (bow and stern) casting to Stripers or tuna.

With the cuddy setup I think only one person can be fishing. I am not much of a troller as I prefer to be actively fishing. Assuming a sideways drift, can more than one person comfortably fish a Seafari?

Aside from fishing space, I like the CC layout for spreading people out. A slow cruise and someone or two can be up front checking out the view while someone else or two can be at the stern. Drop a cooler at the transom and you have a seat.

A cuddy will have everyone in one tight spot. Can get a little close for comfort after a while I would imagine.

I do agree the cabin would be better for bathroom breaks and for napping. That is a compromise I am willing to live with for the other benefits I see from a CC standpoint. Protection from the elements is a concern, but I do not see taking the family out when it is crappy out. For me it won't matter. If it rains a little while I am fishing I will put on a jacket. The CC will have a T-top and curtains so running will be fine.

I like the idea of my little stretched 20 CC for its versatility. Fish inshore perfectly and capable to go offshore a little bit on nice weather days. The economy of running it is appealing too. Runs to the sandbar or other locations will be easy and relatively comfortable. I don't see any use for me a 23 will do that the 21 won't. I am not going out in 3-5's and if I get caught in those I am slow going my way in in either.

I thought about a 23 and would have liked to have had one, but the 20 came along. The 23 would also be more expensive; to buy and then run.

I think a stretched to 21 feet CC will be perfect for me for a long time, but am willing to listen to arguments for the Seafari. It would certainly save a lot of time and effort to redo it, but then I am afraid I will want a CC afterward anyway. Maybe if I came across a 23 later, fixed it up the way I want and then sold the 20 it could work...

Sent you a PM. My advice is to make the seafari work for now. Get your feet wet putting it together. Put the 21 dream on ice for a little while. The 20 seafari is an AWESOME sandbar boat and with a sea anchor or anchor (it's a kick ass boat for bottom fishing).

Since you asked, your crazy
 

I’m with Big on this one. Most of my time has been on boats with sails but my Seafari’s work really well in many situations. I personally like the protection of the cuddy too. Being in the N. East as well I know that just because air temp is nice doesn’t necessarily mean the spray is going to be pleasant.

If you go forward with your modifications and it’s cockpit space you really want I would consider a bracket and clear out all the stuff at the stern. I would first encourage you to search for Bushwacker’s and Capt Terry’s threads on brackets and CG. and study up. If you absolutely feel you need to cut, consider that the hull is not only structural, there is also a lot of engineering to get the correct static buoyancy, dynamic lift, etc. Even with a free Seafari these modification costs will be astronomical if they even work. You really need to find a newer 21 CC or even find a HiLiner Adventurer and restore it. It would be cheaper and easier in the end.

Thank you all for the replies. I am going to need to digest. I have been planning the CC conversion for a while now and have been getting excited for it. But it indeed seems I am being crazy. I will have to come up with a new plan. Bracket and outboard will still be the plan I think.

find a cc if thats what you want. dont make it harder than its already gonna be.

To answer your question - yes.
Sell the Seafari project and buy a 23 CC project.

Why? This "free" boat will be way more expensive than any craigslist find. If you want a 21' center console, get one. You are basically going to chop up every part of that boat. And if your wife and kids need a potty space, the seafari has one already. It is unlikely that you can fit a big enough console into that boat to make a potty comfortable and with two fuel tanks, you will be left with virtually no space for storage. With a Lefty Kreh style coffin box, how will you get under the console to use the potty? These hulls arent very wide to start with, so side entry will be an issue.

Just use it as is for a year before you start chopping.

Is that a crazy idea? My gut says probably so. What you're getting here is pretty decent advice, based on a lot of experience. While the hull is free, the amount of time, materials and labor you're talking about is a major investment. Nobody who starts a project like this thinks it'll happen to them, but many projects are never completed for a whole bunch of reasons - things pop up in your life that change how much of that time, money, effort and commitment can be devoted to "the project," so it winds up sitting partially completed and unusable for long periods of time.

I agree that a better plan would be to get the Seafari in running shape with maybe a decent used motor, use it (gets you and your crew on the water this summer) and look for a 23 project boat. Make that your dream boat, and as the 23 gets ready to splash put the 20 up for sale. Good luck however you go!

All great advice and why I started the thread. I appreciate it. I am leaning towards the get the Seafari running and use it until a 23 CC comes along that will be perfect once customized to my needs plan of attack. The Seafari still needs a transom and engine so plenty to get my urge for a project fulfilled without being overwhelming. A good prelude to a bigger 23 CC project when the time comes. Time to adjust the plan accordingly.

Fix & try the Seafari
 

Locke n Load
Sounds like a good plan to simply repair the Seafari and not convert it. As a Seafari owner for 42 yesrs, I suggest you msy find it more versatile than you currently imagine.

Now if only this damned weather would break so I can actually get some work going.

Living in a.Fla. I love cc’sgetting air around you is a necessity in the summertime .I try and get up to Plum Isld Ma to fish One or twice a yr. I have to say it’s damn nice to have something big to get behind while I’m up there

As the owner of a 72 Seafari, I have to say, I think you are mad! Just kidding, but there is SOOOO much work in what you described, that it defies description why you would do that to this style boat at all - when a good project center console hull is fairly easy to find to start with - for free or virtually free. There is plenty of room for two people to fish this hull, and I cannot tell you how many times I have heard guys that own CC's tell me they wished they had my boat with the windscreen - for themselves, not just for their wives and girls. Stepping down into the footwell and getting behind the windscreen while driving in rain is actually pleasant! And financially, it is a sure way to the poor house - there is no way you can do what you described in LESS than double what starting with a CC hull would cost. Sorry, but my 2 Cents. Good luck what ever way you go, but knowing that only 350 Seafaris were made in 20 foot size, I winced reading your plans....

Haha. I knew the SeaCraft purists eventually would come out to tell me not to carve her up. I was 99% CC conversion a week ago. A couple days ago it was 50/50. Now I am probably 90% keep it a Seafari.

When I was going to strip her down to the keel and build her back up the plan was pretty straightforward. Now I need to think about how deep to go to make her seaworthy without wasting time and effort if the plan will be to someday sell. I know the transom needs to be done. I will need to check the stringers and fuel tank. Rewiring will be done. I will need an engine. Plus many more things.

stringers are usually fine on the seafaris. Make sure you test/replace the scuppers out the bottom. Jamestown stocks the 6" flaired tubes. I have the tool to flare the ends if you want to borrow it.

BigShrimpin is right - If the '71 is like my '72 there is no substantial wood in the stringers to rot, and there is so much glass there that even if there were it is not structurally significant. My '72 has some wood core on the sides of the step down/step area, and in the front of the fuel tank box but that is about it.

I believe the stringers should be foam filled like mine are.

My transom was rotten and I had that professionally redone at a cost of about $3500 in NJ. He used marine plywood, since I was not able to spring for composite cores. (I have kids in college) Once that was done, the rest of the rehab I did myself - and it was mostly a pleasure, with lots of help from the gurus on this forum.

Here are some before and afters of the transom - which I had raised to 25 inches. If you decide to skip the bracket, make sure you raise the transom 1-1.5 inches ABOVE the recommended height. I.E. if the outboard height is 25 inches, make the transom 26.5 inches high. You will be glad you did when it comes time to dial in the outboard height.


Finally, post some photos! We love Seafari Porn!

This is the scupper support area in my old 1972 seafari. You might carefully inspect this area . . . see the cracked potter putty. I removed the old bronze tubes and banged in PVC. I made custom plugs for the PVC. I also like the idea of a transom mounted engine over a bracket.

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Good call. I’m looking forward to watching.

Outboards too heavy and too much HP for Seafari
 

Locke n Load

It is good you are sharing some of your ideas for responses. CSC members have differing opinions based on their experience and boat usage. There is some excellent advice if you search for it. For various reasons there are modification projects that never get completed. Less time and money will be spent by not prematurely launching into screwy projects. And as I have heard from Carla Moesly (paraphrased), repair or modify or boat to serve your needs, but not to flip it, because you’ll never get out of it what you put in it!

As SSPBill remarked, check out Bushwacker’s posts on brackets, engine weight, etc. Bushwacker is the former CSC performance moderator who converted his 20’ Seafari to a full transom and bracket, but continued to use his ETEC 150. He liked the full transom and the platform, but his CG moved about 11” aft and found he needed to run faster to maintain a minimum plane even with trim tabs. I posted “Estimating CG Shift with Heavy Engines” which shows how to estimate the CG shift for moving the engine to a bracket or for relocating other heavy items. Based on these calculations you’ll understand where to temporarily locate weight to predict the effects of your anticipated changes.

WEIGHT- The narrow Seacrafts were designed when outboards engines were in the 300# range. My ETEC 150 HO is 418#. But the engines you mentioned are too heavy, the Verado 400 is 668# and the Suzuki 350 is 727#. Bet your '71 scuppers will no longer be self bailing.

HORSEPOWER- The HP of the aforementioned Suzuki and Verado are way more than needed for a Seafari. At WOT I can hit 41-42 mph on lake conditions with either a properly propped High Five or Inertia. I originally hit 50 mph with the ETEC; but not only was the original prop overpitched thereby not achieving recommended RPM, but it felt too fast for good boat handling. Search out comments on chine walking which occurs at high speeds. There may be some guys with 200s, but would think 175 is a recommended max.

Keep researching and thinking. Kind of like the old saying, “Measure twice and cut once” or my Dad’s tongue in cheek version, “Darn it, I’ve cut it twice and it’s still too short!”

Thanks everyone. I did a lot of reading last night on here checking out completed projects Still plenty more to do. I think the notched transom is the correct path for me to follow. Dealing with CG shifts, a bracket, etc. will be saved for the next all-in project.

The big HP engines was my attempt at humor. I am thinking the Mercury 150 4 stroke would be the ideal engine. Whether I go new or come across a deal on a used engine I cannot pass up is still to be determined. Plenty to do before that point. I am going outside now so I will take some more "before" pics and share.

Thanks again everyone.

Off to a good start. In addition to the transom, the deck needs to be replaced. It is soft in a couple of places there were screws. A whole new deck makes sense since the engine opening needs to be done as well. I think this will be a good opportunity to move the fuel tank forward and make it larger. TBD.

Cool project! As to the engine discussion, I run a Johnson 2-stroke 115hp and with a 3 blade aluminum prop (not exactly the most high-performance!) I get planing at around 14-15 knots, and cruise at 22-25 knots. Top speed is around 34-35 knots. Plenty fast for me in this hull. Dogbomb on this site has a Suzuki 140hp, and he loves that motor - you might look at those in your quest to power this boat. Most folks with this hull consider 150hp the most anyone really needs, and there are some guys with 90hp's that love them.

It really is surprising how little horse power is required to push these boats well. I’d go as light as possible. I run a 3 cylinder 90 hp 2 stroke on my 18 and to be honest I think a 70 would push it just fine. Running in ocean conditions I almost think I’d rather have a 70 2 stoke than a 115 2 stroke. I personally can’t imagine putting a 150 four stroke on the stern although I’m sure people have done it.

It is funny going back and reading some of my original ideas. I am very glad I listened to the advice offered and kept my Seafari intact. I can't believe it has been four years. Covid really screwed things up for a while. Last spring I really got back into it and now that the winter break is almost over and I am getting back out there it was good to have some inspiration from this old thread. Fingers crossed this summer she will be back on the water.

How about a few pics?

Glad to hear the update! As an owner of a 75' 23 Sceptre I can attest to the value of having the protection from the wind screen.

Paired with a Bimini top, its amazing how much better you feel after a day on the water without being constantly exposed to the elements. Keep us updated with the progress!

You're not going to be underpowered with a 90 or a 115. The hull was originally designed in 1967-68 for the weight of the most powerful pattern outboards of the day, which was the V4 Evinrude or the Inline 6cyl Mercury. Both style motors were in the 270-300 lb range.

In the early to mid-1980's I used to re-rig and sell the Seafari models with V4 85 or 115 hp JohnnyRudes or I6 90 or 115 hp Mercurys as the most popular choices. I even did one with a single 3-cyl 70 hp Johnson. Now that was underpowered. It would plane with 2 or 3 people and gear, but top speed was around 28 mph and cruise was around 18-19 mph. You had to run the motor so hard it actually used more fuel than a 115.

I also rigged one with twin Evinrude 70 hp motors, and it was no longer self-bailing with two 200 lb adults standing in the back of the boat. One person was fine, but the second guy brought water up onto the deck. (However, it was fine with the owner and his wife, each of whom were under 150 lbs.)