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Time for another (1979 23' Resto)
It's been a little over 8 years since I redid my 1974 20' SF, which I think turned out pretty well:
https://imgur.com/pmuOabC.jpg https://imgur.com/kilYTts.jpg The 20 has been fantastic (and still is), but after getting married, having two boys, and moving to South Carolina (Charleston area), I find myself in need of a larger boat. Naturally I started the search for a 23' SeaCraft. Ended up making the drive to Boynton Beach, Fl this past weekend to pick up a 1979 23' Savage for a reasonable price. Current plans are for a complete teardown, raise stringers 2-3", new Nida-Core deck, enclosed transom (Coosa)/bracket, do something about this monstrous center console, and I may get excommunicated for it but remove the cabin and make it a normal CC. First thing is some trailer work. Need to get this boat sitting correct, WAY too much tongue weight, bunks need to be extended back around 2' and boat moved back. https://imgur.com/LHxVOEN.jpg https://imgur.com/JpWJ4oD.jpg Looking forward to this rebuild! |
Waiting with baited breathe! ;)
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Good luck on the project!
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Trailer Work
No sexy boat work yet, but did get a lot done on the trailer over the past 2 weeks (most of the time was spent waiting on shipments). The trailer that came with this boat was definitely made for a heavier boat. It was registered in FL as a home built as it has no capacity placte/VIN but was definitely manufactured (this does not matter for me as SC does not title/register trailers). It's an tandem axle aluminum I-Beam trailer with 6000lb axles, 3000lb springs, and 3000lb (6) lug hubs. Even though there is no capacity plate, I'm making the assumption the trailer weights in around 1000lbs - 1200lbs, giving me approximately 10800lbs - 11000lbs of capacity, WAY more than I'd ever need, but apart from a slightly stiff ride, shouldn't do any harm right?
Before I drove to FL to pick it up, the seller had informed me the bunks were rotted out so I ended up making a pair and bringing them down to install before driving back up. Unfortunately the bunk length I made was fine for the drive back, but not correct with how the boat is sitting on the trailer, since I needed the boat to move back on the trailer to get a better tongue weight I needed about 2' additional feet of bunk. Recruited some cheap labor and got to work: https://imgur.com/nxmFr1a.jpg Bunks are (2) 2x8x10' PT that are bolted together w/ countersunk with (6) 3" galvanized carriage bolts. I also hit each bolt with cold galvanized spray after tightening them down, because I had a can of it laying around. I cut a bevel in each one to match the hull and then put some outdoor carpet on each one, leaving the bottoms uncovered so they don't hold water against the bottoms of the bunks. https://imgur.com/qm9hQMP.jpg https://imgur.com/fZlXHqo.jpg https://imgur.com/aeQQG1g.jpg I replaced all the rusted galvanized hardware and before installing it coated all the hardware that comes in contact with the aluminum on the trailer (u-bolts, brackets, etc) with truck bed liner paint (rubbery) to hopefully minimize future corrosion. https://imgur.com/yvVdAjp.jpg Got the new bunks installed and tightened down, just need to go to the ramp and float the boat to move the boat/winch stand back. https://imgur.com/1dGEqyh.jpg After that it was more waiting for my order of stainless hardware (for the entire trailer), springs, hubs, wheels, axles, and brakes. It's like Christmas! https://imgur.com/SzJVw1u.jpg When pulling off the old axles/springs 3 of the 4 springs simply broke in half when tension on the seat was released. Glad they stayed together for the 500+ mile ride home. https://imgur.com/qDMey6X.jpg Hubs were not pretty, and bearings were shot. https://imgur.com/Ov7EgHw.jpg Brake flanges were almost paper thin. https://imgur.com/9WeMgke.jpg Hit post size limit, will continue in next post. |
New 6000lb axle installed and brake flange bolted on.
https://imgur.com/703MS6P.jpg New 3000lb TieDown Vortex GalvX 6 lug hubs: https://imgur.com/8D00GZM.jpg https://imgur.com/lOeLEqX.jpg 12" Kodiak Rotor and Caliper (KodaGuard coating). https://imgur.com/CI0wM4s.jpg https://imgur.com/CYiTAy6.jpg https://imgur.com/eaG1yaE.jpg Complete! Also note new spring hanger hardware, these are hot dipped galvanized A325 structural bolts as I could not find galvanized grade 8 bolts. I did not want to use stainless or general use galvanized here since shear strength is required for this application. Though not quite as strong as grade 8, these should work nicely and last a lot longer. https://imgur.com/MTEV1nz.jpg The next day I wired up the trailer. New lights (not pictured), hydraulic lines, Hydrastar 1600psi hydraulic actuator, brakeaway kit, etc. Each light got it's own home run of triplex marine tinned wire (no trailer frame ground) with heat shrink butt splices. All of it was wired back to this 7 pin junction box. https://imgur.com/9szRht6.jpg https://imgur.com/WHNoaOx.jpg https://imgur.com/F7zr0r6.jpg Finally I went around the trailer and replaced just about every piece of hardware with stainless, using nylon washers and coating to prevent any corrosion between the aluminum and stainless. https://imgur.com/1gUmokV.jpg Hit post size limit again, continued in next post. |
Finally, in order to control the electric over hydraulic brakes I installed a brake controller in my tow vehicle (2009 V6 Dual Cab Tacoma, 6500lb towing capacity). I wanted it to look as factory as possible so I went with a Redarc Tow Pro Elite. This brake controller is two parts, the actual controller which is mounted somewhere in the vehicle out of sight, and then the control knob to change settings on the controller, which is mounted in a panel knock out. They even have a Tacoma factory sized knock out.
https://imgur.com/48EZ1JH.jpg Controller installed inside center console. https://imgur.com/LQ8puoF.jpg Control knob installed. https://imgur.com/XSIBh4A.jpg I sunk a ton of money into the trailer but I'll be moving it A LOT while working on it (I keep the boat at work) so I wanted it to be as safe as possible since I'll be close to the towing capacity of my Tacoma once thing is done and fully loaded. Brakes work amazing, had to dial them down some on the controller because they were pulling my truck backwards too hard when I applied them. Now that they are dialed in I do not even feel the trailer behind me when braking, its awesome. Hopefully I won't have to do any more trailer work for a few seasons! Next post will be about the actual SeaCraft! |
Thanks for the very detailed trailer rehab post, lots of good content. I think a lot of people neglect their trailers and pay the price on the road with vacation killing problems. Good job!
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Good luck!!
Can't wait to see the progress
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As Jim says, very nice trailer info. Those breaks are really, really nice. Now don't go and put them in the salt water!!! :)
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I think you know what your doing based on your top shelf upgrades and rehab of the 20'.
Just some food for thought , I would reconsider raising the stringers on the Savage. You can save yourself a lot of work. With proper plumb of the tru hull scuppers out the transom, The 23' will not give you wet feet thus maintaining the high gunwhales... I used Gemlux with the replaceable flaps were still above the waterrline. GLW the rebuild. |
Nice looking forward to another of your re do's!
strick |
Geez. Trailer porn. Who knew ?!
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Where are you buying those trailer parts?
Good idea on the bed liner paint. |
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Axles from this ebay store, which had very reasonable shipping ($75 for (2) 94" axles shipped) and were packed extremely well so they arrived in perfect condition. Bolt Depot for all the hardware. And since noone likes posts from the thread OP w/o pictures. A teaser image: https://imgur.com/0kqBigc.jpg She floats! Took her down the lake and moved her further back on the trailer after Florence stopped pissing on us. Tongue weight isn't perfect, but ridiculously better than it was, 600lbs of motor off her transom will help. Pulled the trigger on (3) 3/4" sheets of 26lb Coosa for transom/bulkheads and (6) sheets of 3/4" honeycomb for deck/cap coring. 100% committed to a wood free boat, and you all better hold me to that. Currently removing hardware and getting ready to start cutting. I also discovered last night why she feels a slightly heavier than I was expecting, currently has ~100G of something in the fuel tank, tank needs to be pulled so not sure what I'm going to do with that. |
You will like the tires that trailer will require, way more capacity than you will need, so the tires should be loafing no matter what you put in the boat or how fast you tow. Makes for a whole lot less flats and you might even be able to run decent speed with one tire out, in an emergency. One of these days, that will save your trip.
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Yes Sir Noah, great idea on composite all the way. First time I drove my brother's 23'er which was redone with all 26# coosa I could not believe how light and nimble his boat is over mine. You can actualy feel the difference of 600 to 700+ pounds in weight loss. Good luck.
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That was the most amazing, documented, and learning curve about a boat trailer that i have ever seen... holy moly.. please save some money for the boat!!! it would make me cringe at the thought of even dunking that trailer in salt water.. hell, i wouldn't even want to drive it when the roads are wet as to avoid them getting nasty dirty... kind of like don't pull your 40K custom harley out the garage when it's raining so you don't have to clean up the chrome after you ride.!
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Did a little work last night. Cut all the wires/disconnected the hydraulic steering under the console and had a neighbor help me get it out of the boat. This thing is enormous, overall footprint is 43" wide x 53" long. I've been searching but can't find any other SeaCraft that has this type of console. I wouldn't think it was stock, except the deck has a fiberglass lip that matches the inside of the console. https://imgur.com/mRJi99P.jpg https://imgur.com/nfKevO0.jpg My other "helper" showed up for a bit to lend a hand. You can also see the lip I was talking about for the console in this picture. https://imgur.com/2efKAZd.jpg Pulling it out of the boat. https://imgur.com/dl5Sjr8.jpg Yup, there's a tank in there. https://imgur.com/NSTsPJU.jpg Before I can start cutting up the floor I want to get the tank out, before I can get the tank out I need to get whatever is in the tank out. Got out my old trusty 12v crap fuel remover rig (cheap 12v fuel pump, 10' of fuel hose, and 15' of battery lead to keep everything WELL away from each other). https://imgur.com/NnOu6jk.jpg https://imgur.com/UiIQB6f.jpg No water in it to speak of but unknown age = toss. I don't have enough room to store this much gas to dilute and use for lawn mower gas and don't trust it in my truck. The county recycling center has a 250 gallon gas/mixed gas tank so will be taking 20 gallons a day (emptied my two 5 gallon cans in my truck and borrowed two 5 gallon cans from the neighbor) up there on my way to work to dispose of it . https://imgur.com/kc0WTzt.jpg Last thing I did last night was get the rub rail off, went fairly quick, had to cut (2) stripped screws, really the hardest part was rolling it up. https://imgur.com/PRlmDVA.jpg Here's how she sits as of this morning. https://imgur.com/hFoWEZY.jpg https://imgur.com/iMyOQWu.jpg Current items on the TO DO list before I start cutting.
A question for the experts here. I can only leave her in my driveway for so long before the HOA starts complaining, so I've been trailering back and forth to where I store her (parking space at work). This works fine, but my question is about the feasibility of trailering the boat with the cap off. I plan on removing the cap to re-core it, and don't want any surprises when I put it back on. I plan on making some 2x4 supports that will hold the top of the hull in place to prevent it from growing, but will that be enough with the cap removed and floor cut out bouncing down the road? |
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It reminds me of an inboard console but on an outboard hull liner? |
Looks like an old inboard seavee/whitewater console...
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The plot thickens on this boat (and gets even more confusing).
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HIN on this boat begins with SECR: https://imgur.com/wraUgQz.jpg So that means someone converted it to a "Savage", which explains the weird console. I guess the person also went to the trouble of fiberglassing in a lip for the new console into the deck as seen here: https://imgur.com/6q3TdK2.jpg Can anyone confirm that the R in the HIN does indeed stand for Sceptre? Doesn't really change any of my plans, now I don't feel as bad for cutting it up being that it's not a rare "true" Savage. Been traveling for work, but got all the gas drained and disposed of, progress pics coming soon! |
Christmas came early again in the form of material order from forum member shine's store Gulfstream Composites.
https://imgur.com/37Y6M3I.jpg General rundown of materials is:
I guarantee I'll have to put in another other of materials at some point but I should be good on most stuff for a long while. Start cutting tonight! |
I thought I heard a noise from far, far away.....might have been your bank account screaming!!! :) Good luck!!
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All the gas is out of the tank, haven't pulled it yet, wanted to get some demo of the cap done before I start ripping up the floor so I would have something to stand on. Starting cutting this weekend. Getting the rest of the coaming bolsters off: https://imgur.com/col0H0G.jpg Cutting out the "Sceptre portion" on the starboard side of the cap: https://imgur.com/cHPS4R0.jpg Pretty much gone. Was gonna leave that little vertical part of the cap that's hanging in these pictures and try and use it as a guide for cap modification, decided against it and am just gonna build a temp mold around the cap when I pull it. https://imgur.com/k7pjmDp.jpg https://imgur.com/CduWA6r.jpg Out of the boat: https://imgur.com/bAMOe8f.jpg Repeated the process on the other half, ending up with: https://imgur.com/8QpnuXi.jpg I know I'm making a CC the hard way, but it's what I want, it's going to end up being EXACTLY what I want, and the price on this hull was right, well below anything I could find for a CC. Before: https://imgur.com/iMyOQWu.jpg After: https://imgur.com/8T1DywB.jpg https://imgur.com/LNiOPXV.jpg Current major planned steps are (in order):
Please point out if you think any of those would be better/easier in a different order. Very long and work intensive road ahead but I'm glad to be on it and have a clear vision of a kick ass "forever boat" at the end of it. I'm trying to get as much done as possible on the hull before it gets too "cold" here. The 350 non-blush hardener states it will cure down to 60F. We have day time temps that high here till around mid-late December, and using the old tarp and heater trick during the night I should be able to have around 2 more months of hull work that I can reliably perform. After it gets too cold I'll move to the garage and start fabricating a console/leaning post for the boat over the winter. Hoping to get the tank out before the weekend and get the floor cut out by the end of the weekend. Thanks for looking! |
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Watching with great interest as I have the same boat sitting here. Wondering if the liner is too much trouble to re use. would save lots of fairing....cut and paste if you will?
strick |
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Did some work this weekend. Started with the trailer, as I mentioned before, I didn't like how the keel sat on the PVC "V" up front so I decided to replace it with some front keel bunks. In addition I wanted to raise the boat up a little more on the trailer because the stern was very close to the rear most cross member as well as holding water in the keel up front as this was lower than the stern. I purchased some 10" bunk brackets to replace the 8" ones that were currently on the trailer (the old ones had some heavy corrosion in some places anyways). Borrowing my friend's trailer stands made the process of lifting the boat extremely easy, not to mention safe. Wish I knew he had these when I initially replaced the main bunks, gonna help for bottom work for sure. Stands getting bolted on: https://imgur.com/8psNvfV.jpg Lifting it up: https://imgur.com/oF3en9R.jpg https://imgur.com/6J6Szvm.jpg Test fitting to get the length right: https://imgur.com/70pj7j5.jpg Made the forward bunks out of pressure treated 2x6 and covered in the same outdoor carpet as my main bunks. Used counter sunk 3/8" stainless bolts to hold the brackets to the bunk, I try to through bolt anything I can. https://imgur.com/IlKge8A.jpg One complete bunk: https://imgur.com/eLiQxxw.jpg Both bunks installed, main bunk brackets replaced, boat now sits 2" higher than before and is no longer resting on the keel up front. You can see where it has some trailer rash from that PVC guide, hopefully that issue is resolved. https://imgur.com/AbMEMUA.jpg I then moved inside the boat to tackle getting the tank out. In order to gain access to the front of the tank, and give me some more room around it I cut the hatch lip going around the tank, as well as a good portion of the storage in front of the tank. Obligatory about to cut glass pic (also you can see in the background the wife decorated for Halloween, our porch isn't normally a crime scene): https://imgur.com/NJBQxv8.jpg Cut, cut cut: https://imgur.com/pvSVuvD.jpg https://imgur.com/4N0LHsM.jpg Bare plywood bulkhead, surprisingly good shape for being in the bilge for the last 40 years, this was underneath the storage area I cut out. https://imgur.com/ZMKsRCT.jpg Not sure if I broke this pulling on the storage compartment breaking it free of the potter putty or if it broken in the past: https://imgur.com/brCGCEk.jpg This also greeted me under the storage compartment. Some sort of transducer or something, not sure. It's completely in cased in resin, and the area around it is a pool of resin. Wire is cut going to it at about 8" long, so no idea what it went to in the past. Need to climb around underneath the hull and see if I can find the exterior of it. https://imgur.com/jBN6Nmp.jpg Reached post image limit, continuing in next post. |
Let the tank pulling begin, after a failed attempt at using a winch I went with the tried and true "floor jack method", worked like a champ.
https://imgur.com/ATsi4HD.jpg Working my way down the tank breaking each area free of the foam. https://imgur.com/AxPRuZ8.jpg Used my degree in redneck structural engineering to put this contraption together to break it completely free of the foam: https://imgur.com/m40Y5vt.jpg https://imgur.com/DOH5hn6.jpg I finally beat it: https://imgur.com/9Q0uw7c.jpg Spent a little time cutting up the deck before calling it a day. As you can see, and unfortunately for me, the bonding between the deck and potter putter so far is really good, no gaps like other people have found. https://imgur.com/4ODoWBR.jpg Thanks for looking! |
That's a great trick with the floor jack and the strap.
Definitely filing that one away for later. http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...ons/icon14.gif |
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Yer Sir a Masters degree in "Advanced Redneck Engineering" is in order!! Plus you get bonus points for using a Harbor Freight low profile jack! :)
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Victory on the tank removal. One of the more laborious tasks during a tear down. So do your neighbors think your crazy yet? lol
strick |
And the jacks to replace bunks...very good!
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Ok so haven't gotten any work done this week, but plan on spending the entire day Sunday in the boat. What I have been doing is dreaming and planning though, and I would like ya'lls opinion on some things. I've committed to redoing the stringers into a grid, and purchased the 2" polyisocyanurate foam sheets. I'm doing this because one of the biggest complains I have against my 20' is lack of storage. Another thing that I'm committed (obligated) to do is provide a space for my wife to comfortably layout on cruising days. This is her biggest complaint about the 20' and part of my justification (and her acceptance) for taking on this project. Exhibit A, the uncomfortable Mrs. on the 20SF: https://imgur.com/rOrsEeO.jpg My plan is to give her a bunny pad like member dirtwheelsfl did on Squid Lips and shape it like bills106 is doing on his stretched 23' on The Hull Truth. Here's the console/bunny pad he's making, I plan to copy the shape pretty much exactly: https://imgur.com/MBNK3lV.jpg Luckily she's only 5' tall so a center console coffin won't eat up too much deck and have the benefit of providing some above deck storage. The decision I'm facing is how much below deck storage do I want vs if I want to re-foam the boat with enough foam to have positive flotation. Here are some drawings I've been working on, one maximizing storage, and another providing positive flotation. Flotation: https://imgur.com/5LqnMrF.jpg Storage: https://imgur.com/sovB26z.jpg Both layouts give me the required bunny pad, a large (65"+ long and 25"+ wide) forward fishbox, a small stern cooler/fishbox (something similar to shine's restore), a 30 gallon leaning post live well, and a 30 gallon fresh water tank, and a large amount of under deck storage. The flotation layout obviously having less space under the deck, but at the benefit of positive flotation. I think I'm leaning towards the flotation one, but I never plan on being offshore without an EPIRB, PLBs, and a life raft. So, to sum up my questions: 1. What do you think of the overall layout? What would you change? I'm trying to incorporate my likes/dislikes from the 20SF and what I like the best out of all the restores I've seen. 2. Should I re-foam and lose some storage or no foam and have ton's of space under the deck? |
Exhibit A and flotation should go well together.
I've been watching that thred over on THT as well I've always been partial to the lefty Kreh edition boats and Squid Lips is one of the nice Re do's I've seen. His transom is simple and opens up the deck a lot. strick |
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Had a fantastic weekend, I had the kids on Sat because wife was gone all day working (wedding photographer), so the boys and I spent some time enjoying this fantastic weather we are having here in South Carolina. https://imgur.com/DssUwbU.gif Spent some time digging into the 23 on Sunday, got some help from the boys as well. My 5 year old had a blast removing Potter Putty. Thank God I'm not paying him by the hour, I think he spend 2 hours removing 5 pieces, but he loved helping with the boat and it kept him out of my wife's hair. Working on port side: https://imgur.com/fWpEEgp.jpg Found what appears to be some sort of rodent nest in the port cable chase: https://imgur.com/irhfKvV.jpg Port side done: https://imgur.com/4xWI4p7.jpg More of the same on the starboard side, they did a good job with the putty on this boat, the deck was glued down well.: https://imgur.com/PJrA45M.jpg https://imgur.com/LZUy94Z.jpg Here is how he spent the majority of his time in the boat, popping putty off the top of the stringers. https://imgur.com/aBq4fBZ.jpg The front portion of the deck was an absolute bear to get out, I probably spent an hour pulling and prying on it after cutting out the perimeter. I couldn't see anywhere it was glued down but I knew there had to be some putty somewhere holding it. Finally decided enough is enough and busted out the old trusty HF low profile. I've had this thing for about 8 years now, and it's an absolute beast, now that I've lifted it into the boat several times I really wish I would have bought the aluminum: https://imgur.com/XoKWzWC.jpg Within 2 minutes of getting it position there was a VERY satisfying pop and the whole front deck lifted about 3", this chunk of putty in the bow was holding it in place: https://imgur.com/TzrMYWK.jpg After I heaved the front deck out of the boat the inspector's arrived to make sure the work was completely satisfactorily: https://imgur.com/I0nJV0x.jpg Once I had their approval and they returned back inside to finish their dinner I snapped a few pics before buttoning up. Here is how she sits: https://imgur.com/Jfl9NUS.jpg https://imgur.com/d9FE1bS.jpg It surprised me that the front of the stringers were just wide open, the foam is dry there (doesn't matter, it's all coming out) but you'd think that they would have enclosed it just to ensure water doesn't get in. Still got some more demo to do, as I mentioned in the last post, trapezoidal stringers are coming out and grid going in, so more glass cutting and lots of foam digging in my immediate future. |
Excellent progress! I'm telling ya a 3000# pressure washer with one of those rotating heads will make very short work of the foam.....oh yeah, and very messy work.
Like this one..... https://www.lowes.com/pd/Blue-Hawk-3...Nozzle/3117679 |
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I just used one yesterday down at my boatyard on our shop pressure washer to strip most of the bottom paint off my '79 23 Sceptre. They are also know as the "viper". We get them from Northern Tool. Hold it in place too long and you'll do some serious damage! |
Another weekend in the books. Wife had weddings Fri and Sat so only got to spend Sunday working on the boat. Did manage to carve a pumpkin with the boys though on Saturday, Happy Halloween ya'll:
https://imgur.com/4GaAZEw.jpg Sunday morning was spent chiseling Potter Putty off of the tops of the stringers so that I can get a saw to them, once again my 5 y/o wanted to lend a hand: https://imgur.com/To1zBsF.jpg After that I started to dig out the foam on either side of each stringer. Most of this foam was VERY wet and would gush water when pried on. Port foam had about 1.5" of standing water under it that was trapped: https://imgur.com/nDNBses.jpg https://imgur.com/UldehAz.jpg After that I started to cut open the port stringer to remove all the foam. Since I'm going back with my own stringer system I was generous with my cuts so there would be less digging: https://imgur.com/kysIQgW.jpg https://imgur.com/1z6AwaV.jpg The foam near the top of the stringer was pretty dry, but the foam near the bottom was soaked, there was also about 1" of water that was trapped in the stringer at the bottom: https://imgur.com/Q3FSitv.jpg Getting the cavity empty of foam: https://imgur.com/5FSg2IS.jpg Completely empty and ready for trimming/grinding: https://imgur.com/QZd2czp.jpg Looking back on pictures it doesn't seem like I did much work, but my muscles and especially my back say different. Standing on an uneven surface for 8 hours does a number to your body. Hoping to knock out the starboard stringer/get some grinding done by next Monday, thanks for looking! |
Nice work, no doubt working on a 20 degree or more surface is a PIA!! I'm assuming you are going with a "bulkhead" boxed stringer system?
Like in post #13 http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...t=29137&page=2 |
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