Suzuki ?
 

I am looking into repowering my 23 Sceptre with a Suzuki 250. Do I want standard analog gauges or digital? Fly by wire or standard configuration?
Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

C-10 gauge and fly by wire. The 250AP and 300AP can be had for the same price or very little difference as they are identical other than the tuning in the ecm. Amazing motor that on my Tsunami get 2.4 nautical MPG overall trip average and up to 2.7 lightly loaded. More power than you will ever need and a 50 mph boat depending on configuration and propping.

I'm approaching 400 hours without a burp and my last DF250 non AP that I traded in was 11 years old and still running fine. Easy to do maintenance that can be done on your own if you're handy.

Suzuki is coming out with new gauges next month. The first variant is similar to the C-10 but is a less complex version and is made by Suzuki and not Lowrance. It looks nice and is easy to read but again is targeted toward those who find the C-10 too confusing (i.e. too many options) to program.

The second variant is made by Furuno and is basically a gauge/chart plotter integrated all in one.

PS - If you can afford the $$$ difference, go with the digital shift and throttle.

So I decided to go with the 250. Here are a couple of quotes I got from a local dealer.
What do you thing?
Do the new gauges have a name so I can ask for them by name?

Electric Controlls
Remove existing engine and controls. Install new engine with
electronic controls and interface gauge into customers existing GPS.
Seatrial and warranty register engine.

DF250APX2 Black 25"
Single Electronic Control Kit
67000-98JE4 Single Binnacle Control Kit
36620-98J41 Main harness 31'
34000-96L43 Multi function gauge kit
990C0-88L00-Kit Cable kit
Propeller allowance ( Stainless)

Suzuki Give me Six Warranty Program. When Non Commercial
customers purchase a qualifying motor they will receive SEP ( three
year limited warranty plus three year Suzuki extended protection).
Total $22,386.91





Cable controls
Remove existing engine and controls. Install new engine with
mechanical controls.
Sub Total on Non taxable Labor/Services


Suzuki DF250TX2 Black 25"
Single Basic Mechanical Control Kit
67000-88L01 Single Binnacle Control
36620-93J02 Main Harness 21ft
34000-96L43 Multi function Gauge kit.
TEL CCX Xtreme Cables (2)

Propeller allowance. ( Stainless )
Suzuki Valentine Customer Rebate. (Good from Feb. 1st- Feb.
28th) Engine has to be bought, installed and registered during this
time to receive rebate.
Suzuki Give me Six Warranty Program. When Non Commercial
customers purchase a qualifying motor they will receive SEP ( three
year limited warranty plus three year Suzuki extended protection).


Total $19434.68


The other option is to take the commercial package which is 15% less but you only get a one year warranty. The motors have a great reputation would it be worth the 15% savings?

Thanks

Seems a little high but motors seem to be cheaper down here due to supply. Give Brian @ international marine service a call for a quote just for comparison. I know they have a shop up your way but not sure how close. Well worth getting a quote from them as they will beat any quote you get regardless. At least you would have a little leverage to bargain with if you know the bottom line.

Also, the DF 250AP is a completely different motor than the 250TX. The AP is a de-tuned 300 with forged crank, rods and pistons, lean burn and a much more robust lower unit with low water pickup. There is literally no difference in power accept at the top end to the 300.

The TX is the motor I had before I repowered. Great motor that has been around for a decade but will not give you the same performance or fuel economy of the AP.

As far as the commercial discount... Hmmm, 15% is huge discount but that is where I think the real price is for the motors and if you shop, should get that price including the warranty.

Battery cable
 

Moose while u are here what battery cable size and type did u use how long was run. Did u go direct engine and eliminate the Suzuki cable. Thx Keith and yes international will beat that price based on my conversation with them last month.

I'll let Moose the Zuke expert tell you about that, however on my Tohatsu/Honda they did NOT want to run the old power cables all the way to the engine. Strongly suggested to only use the ones already factory installed. I took the #2 power cables I had from the other engine, coiled up the excess and connected them to the factory cables with two single post connectors. No problems.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue-...0?recordNum=87

www.OverTheTopOutboardSales.com

These guys are supposed to be e good pricing

Battery cable
 

To bad the factory harnesses did not come longer . I watch that video of Suzuki shop in pompano put a 300 on a Rambo and the installer said they don’t use the factory cable and shows them doing a direct cable install. I take care of a few boats in the keys and one of them has the factory Yamaha cables tie in under the rear storage area of the boat and we have had corrosion problems with it being exposed ,grant me bad design but no problem if the cable had no break point. I am all about following the factory spec but it is good conversation.

I was leaning towards the electric shift which is the AP motor. With the better fuel economy that is the way I will go. I will reach out to Brian @ international marine service and overthetopoutboardsales and see what they have to say and if they are close enough to service.

My other concern is the weight the Yamaha I have now is 495# the Suz is 606#. I am a little nervous about water coming up thru the scupper while at rest/docked.

Thanks for all the great information.

Heading to the Keys next week keep the sun shinning.

I'll have to go look at the size but IMS tossed the stock cables and upgraded them 1/0 I believe. I have the motor main going to my switch and then switch to either of the two batteries. I do have the charging kit that charges the other battery that is isolated by the switch.

The stock deck heights are problematic for the hull whether its people or motor weight. The 100 extra pounds should not be an issue but if you already get wet feet it won't help. I was really hoping someone would get their hands on a new Merc 300 but if you can find one they ain't cheap.

After over three years with my Suzuki 300AP that was purchased at International Marine on my 79 Sceptre with original deck height and a 25 inch transom height.... I do not need to put plugs in the scuppers unless I have an extra 300 - 400 pounds of coolers, bait well, etc. sitting in the stern. I do keep the motor well drain plugs in. Because of the weight forward with the cabin, my 23 freeboard is not reduced by the weight of the motor. My prior motor was a 225 Johnson. The extra weight is not a concern at all.

600# plus bracket weight is less than the stock 1100# for a single I/O. My I/O 23 Sceptre never got our feet wet even with a 30 gal livewell on the dive platform and a soaking wet transom core. Granted a Sceptre has more hull weight forward than a CC, but not all that much.

I repowerd my 2006 23 CC with a 300hp Suzuki fly by wire and digital gauge. Coudn't be happier. Only part that is not great is the gauge...for sure get fly by wire. Don't you need a 30" shaft? I got a good deal and all in was just about $21k for removal of old engine and install of new.

On my 74 Seacraft the transom measures 25" from the top of the transom to the bottom of the drain plug.
Do you have the C-10 gauge? Some mentioned they are coming out with new user friendly gauges.
So I should be able to get the motor with out the C-10 gauges and just go fly by wire until they come out with the new gauges?

the 250 Suz is getting installed on my 74 23 Sceptre this week. I was wonder what size prop others are running.

Suzuki 16X20 3 Blade Stainless Steel

I took the boat for a ride here are the stats. WOT 5790 at 25 knot I was burning 9.79 gph 18kts 6.75 gph. it has a 16 X 17 prop. what do you thing? Should I try to get closer to the max RPMs 6100

With the 17 pitch prop, you should be able to get above 5750 rpm’s. Your motor is mounted to low. I’m at the highest mounting hole and have no cavitation in tight turns and getting on plane, etc. I have an 18.5 pitch prop and can get higher rpm’s then you are getting with your 17.

Something is very very wrong with this setup.

26% prop slip at cruise is really really bad.
29% prop slip at WOT is WORSE.

Are you sure you weren't towing the dock.

The C-10 gauge has an endless array of options on how you can set up the pages. Most people either don't know they can be changed or don't know how to change them. The new gauges due out soon are not as powerful (option wise) but are more user friendly and visually appealing.

I am going to take it for a ride today and double check my original stats.
Ed. The marina that installed the motor didn't have the new gauges. But it will be connected to my Lowrance GPS by the end of the week.
Bigshrimpin not sure what 26% prop slip at cruise or what 29% prop slip at WOT means.

Did you get the TX or the AP? Either way something is bad wrong. As Danny said, the motor is way too low. That motor should spin an 18.5x 16 with no issue and you should be seeing 38-40 knots WOT lightly loaded. Have them mount the motor all the way to the top.

Explanation
https://www.go-fast.com/prop_slip.htm

"Slip is never a negative number, and will range from 5% on a light cat to 25% on a heavy workboat. Most hi performance applications will be between 7 and 12 percent."

25% - 30% slip at Cruise and Wide Open Throttle (WOT) puts you into the work boat (Barge) category.

The 3.6L V6 models use a 2.29:1 ratio. (I made the assumption you have the 3.6L w/2.29 ratio when calculating the slip)
The 4.0L V6 models use a 2.08:1 ratio. (if you have the 4.0L with the 2.08 ratio, slip numbers increase to 33% and 36%)


Your prop is a 17P

Plug the numbers into the prop slip calc below.

Prop Slip Calc
https://www.go-fast.com/Prop_Slip_Calculator.htm

Something is not right. I get 6200 wot, 41 kts with my 20P light load. I can cruise 26 kts at 4400rpm with a full load.

I finally got out to run the motor last nigh and to get accurate information. This is what I found with a half tank of fuel and one passenger with the 17 inch prop.
3500 rpm 20 knots
4000 rpm 25 knots
4500 rpm 31 knots
5000 rpm 34 knots
5750 rpm 39 knots
5900 rpm 38 knots

One thing I noticed when running the boat with a 2-3ft flowing swell, is the motor would go from 25knts to 21knts then back to 25knts after 30 to 60 seconds.

back off on the pitch...?

Motor is way too low.... we have all been through this on the Suzuki. Do you have the 250AP?

kmoose, I have the AP.
I have mentioned to the installer the info that I have received from other Seacraft owners with the same boat and motor. Before they raise the motor they want to try a 4 blade. They measured the distance from the bottom of the haul to the bottom of the AV plate which is one inch. Which is where they say it should be.

I appreciate your input.

Thanks

My 23 CC was installed with a 20.5"Suzuki prop. Lightly loaded I hit 5850rpm's and 51mph. MPG is unreal at 27mph like 3.60-3.7. My issue was offshore in rough weather at 20mph she was trying to stay on plane at 2900 rpm's and wallowed a bit.

I switched to a 18.5" factory watergrip prop. RPM's came up to 6000. Speed dropped to 49.5mph. I have a bimini top, radar arch and Garmin radar. I also have a bracket which I believe adds 2mph. Now my offshore performance is 3300 rpm's at about 20mph and overall better low end performance and I have bottom paint.

Do not try a 4 blade. Raise that bitch THREE holes!

Seacraft hulls need the AV plate high to get clear of the water. BEFORE you go playing around with props, just look over the transom while you are at cruise - if the AV plate is not clear then raise it. Repeat until it is clear. The 23 likes 2-3inches. I have talked with guys running them as much as 3.5 up without a bracket. The 'right' prop with the drive buried is probably not the right prop with the drive in the right place. A buried drive will cost you fuel and speed.

You have a 25” notched transom, correct? I have the same motor (250/300ap 25”), same transom mount. Don’t mess with the props until you get the height correct. It is a waste of your time. As I said 3 weeks ago, raise the motor - all the way up. How many 23 Sceptres has your guy dialed in?? If your guy knows what he is doing, then he just doesn’t want to make the effort. My concern is that he doesn’t know what he is doing. You’ve got 6 people who know what they are talking about telling you to raise the motor. I had to do the same thing with my Suzuki 300AP and just like Flexpat told you tonight, I am also up at least 3 - 3.5 inches above the keel. Don’t let your guy keep leading you down the wrong path, tell him what you want, it’s your time and trouble. Do it. Good luck.

Sounds like they don't want to take the time to raise the motor. The AP motors have low water pick up for a reason. It would take them 15 minutes to do it, put an 18.5 on it and call it a day. I don't understand why the dealer is being so reluctant but you are being very patient with him.

I finally got the motors raised up as high as it could go. I have a 16X18 3 blade prop on her.

Here are the results

RPMs SPEED NM/GAL
3500 21 2.7

4000 28 2.6

4500 32 2.4

5000 34 2.1

WOT
6000 41 1.4

I have 2 batteries on a shelf just forward of the motor where they had the live well. I was thinking about moving the batteries up front. Either between the seats in the storage locker or in the cabin to try to get the bow down and keep the water from coming up through the scuppers when people are standing in the back.
If I move the batteries I would need around 20 feet per wire. What size wire should I use to make the run?

Thanks
Ken

Something is WAY wrong. You are getting close to 1 mpg LESS than other owners.
At 3500 I’m doing 28 mpg or so. I can’t tell you what’s wrong but something is very wrong. You should have another owner that has a 250 or 300 ride on your boat.

Thanks Capt. Brian,
I'm not sure what to do next. Is that 2.8 mpg or 28 mph? I do think the bow is riding high.

Ken

Ken, you are pretty close. Your fuel burn is in the ballpark as you are using knots and nmpg where others use statute. Take some pictures of your set up looking from the back at prop level and from the side and post them up.

Kmoose
The speed is in MPH. If you need more photos let me know.
Thanks for the help.
Ken