18...and I like it
 

So I figured I needed an anthem for this project to get me through some of the low points. I have been absorbing information for the past few years and got my inspiration reading Strick's masterpiece (several times, thankfully while I could still see the pictures). The talent and passion on this site is amazing.

Let me back up for a minute. I bought the hull back in 1992 and can't see ever selling it. There have been a few re-powers and a sound but minimal 25" transom conversion. The boat bails pretty well with ball scuppers and I wanted to keep it as original as possible. I decided to replace the DF140 after 15 years and thought I would do the transom right and carve out the livewell to compensate for the extra weight of another 400 lb motor. I stripped the console, removed an expired aluminum tank and cut the liner out behind the console. As referenced in a few recent 18 posts, my liner popped loose easily and I realized the whole mid-section with the coffin box was loose as well. This was last April when the snow was gone. There is a moment when you realize that your boat won't see the water for Independence Day... or Labor Day. So back to Alice Cooper, "I'm in the middle without any plan."

In the meantime, finished a basement, sold a house, moved, etc.. The scope is now removing and re-coring the liner to a point just behind the casting platform, coring sides
refinishing console for new gauges, cut/fill/raise stringers, and a paint job. The 1.5" Airex transom went in on Saturday. The hatches, liner, and hull sides are going to be Divinycell. I'm using epoxy for everything.

I hope to ask for your help on layup sequence, reinforcement, materials, etc. if I can't pull it from memory. And if anyone can tell me how to manage iPhone pictures it would be greatly appreciated.

Deja Vu!!! Try rotating the phone clockwise a quarter turn. All of my pics taken with the shutter button at the bottom came out as yours did. Rotate counter clockwise and it will be upside down. Ask me how I know.

Appreciate it! Don't want to get off on the wrong foot with NoBones.

Man don't worry about that NoBones guy!!! He's just a sweet pussy cat!! :)

Your good....

Rule #1 Post early in the day !
Rule #2 Do not Post after happy hour, say 8 PM ish you risk being torn
apart if my mood is not good..

Other than that we have no problem..:cool:

Good luck with your re-do.. In the end it will be well worth the effort..

Hey Don, The "pussy cat" comment is going to cost you at the gathering. :eek:

You better be sweating the load that Spidercrab doesn't jump on your ass !

Thanks for the heads up Chuck. Now I am worried.

I just read your post about the center stringer being non-supportive. Mine is a 2x4 that probably weighs 6 times it's dry weight and is a nice mahogany brown. I had planned to dig it out and use my leftover 1.5" Airex to replace it as I do the stringers. If the 1/2 PVC is just as effective I should do that and not waste the money. I figured I would tie into the knee made up out of that stock. Any thoughts?

I know I have seen the original transom layup discussed a number of times but I'm wondering if someone could check in on some specifics. Where my new transom core is at 26.5" from the keel and the original skin is at 20", what is the best sequence for infilling the 1/4" void in that 24" x 6.5" section? I have beveled back the skin beyond but should I just infill 4 or 5 l small layers to match exterior skin thickness and then wrap the full layers of 1708 through the cutout? Also, is two layers of 1708 adequate for the interior skin of my new core? Assuming 2" tab for first layer then 4" for second layer on to hull sides. Planning to clean up the bevel more beforehand and buildup in one shot if possible.

My recommendation would be to match the outside skin thickness. 1/4-3/16 thick inside glass. Remember, the glass is the strength, the core is compression. Thats what I will be doing anyways. As for the outside, I would fill in just shy of the 1/4" with glass (wet on wet). Leaving room for fairing compound / gelcote.

FYI:
Approx six layers of 1708 will get you around a 1/4 inch thick (with approx .41 of a gallon of resin).

Love this calculator at fiberglassupply.com:
Knit Laminate Calculator

Thanks guys. I understand the logic and would like to do as much wet on wet as possible. I'm just trying to plan where I am not grinding through the strength of layers. It always comes back to the bigger/smaller first question. So if I clean up the taper on the outer skin, is it best to wrap full sheets of 1708 through and then fill in whats left of the void? It will take 6 layers in that area. Do I really need that much biax on the inner skin? I want to overbuild but I don't remember seeing that much in other threads.

I will also need to tie upper section of liner (7-8") around on to transom when that goes back in so don't want to create a hump. Probably overthinking but I want to feel confident I'm never tearing this one apart again.

Zach - I took your advice and created a big knee for under the motor well. Wish I had seen your 18 before you sold it.

The way I did mine was I bought some prefabricated 3/16 flat stock from mcmaster-carr, and used that for the infill area. Glued it in place with epoxy and a lot of clamps.
Then ground back both sides (old glass and new flatstock) to a bevel about 6-8" wide (3-4 inches into each side) then glassed the two substrates with strips of 1708, and epoxy putty for any voids.
I may have glassed over the whole thing with a layer or two as well. Dont really remember.
Then faired and finished.
The flat stock from mcmaster is ridiculously strong, and glasses well to the old material.
Believe I used epoxy for everything.

Nice. Really helps distribute the force loads from the motor to more of the hull than just the transom.

On that notch fill piece... Just bevel about 6" all around it, pretty much down to the new core depth-wise. Then lam enough to bring it just about level (leave a bit for fairing compound/primer). Large to small on the glass... Take some visqueen and lay it over and trace that as a pattern

Inner skin: 4x1708 is about standard (1700 if epoxy). Do a nice 8-12" tab into the hull though. 2oz of resin wets out a sq foot of 1708 so you can gauge and not have much waste. Or weigh the glass and mix up the same amount of resin by volume. Keep that roller wet!

Great way to start a Monday! Trying not to be too much of a fanboy but Squid Lips should be required reading for anyone on this site. Alright, back to work.

Finally got a nice day up here on Saturday and I was so excited for this part that I forgot to rotate the phone. Forgive the mods. The transom is finally laminated with 4 layers of 1708. After that I replaced the last 6 feet of liner temporarily and stitched it back together at the cut line. The plan was to rebond the liner where it contacts the stringers so I cut ahead of the coffin and the installed a unistrut frame to lift the whole section. I have a recurring fear after reading a lot of threads where the sides spread during deck or coring work so I made a gage stick to index five spots along the hull. Probably overkill but want the liner to drop in with as little drama as possible when I rebond it. So I wheeled the hull under my 2x6 gantry and pulled it with a come-along. Stringers as I already new we’re not level and badly collapsed/cracked. It’s a lot more work but I can’t wait to see how much this will improve what was already a solid ride. It is mostly a 7/8” gap between mating surfaces so I plan to carve tops, dig out and replace foam, and level new tops more like 1/4” from bottom of liner. Will try to post more frequently.

With the cap off, you need to brace the hull sides from within or your cap will never fit back on correctly

Agreed. I have it braced in 5 locations. Will post an inside view now that the liner is out.

On the subject of coring the hull sides, I am planning to leave the bow/casting platform section attached and bring the scored Divinycell as far as I can reach. Obviously better to go all the way but would like to save that structure as is. Once the core is glued up, I thought I'd fill the scoring with a thinner cabosil mix, laminate one layer of 1708 with 4" overlap on bottom, pull the bracing, drop the liner back in dry and let the sides cure with the shoebox on. I figured its better to do this before carving the strength out of the existing stringers. Anyone see something I should do different?

Yep, Get a bigger shop/garage cause you will run out of room quick
with the project you are taking on !!

Not much to brag about but the sides have been cored and laminated. I dropped the liner back in and screwed it off while the skin cured and feel better about holding the shape. I carved off the top of the stringers and popped out some wet foam. It was odd that the port side came out in two pieces like an ice cube and the starboard side had to be chiseled out in small chunks. Anyway, cleaned up the inside and ground a bevel on remaining vertical glass to tie caps back in after pouring new foam. The rigging tube holes under the console have always bothered me where they fell under the flange. I reworked the console and shortened the plan for the tank so controls and hoses will run through the back of the coffin. I borrowed a detail from Strick's scupper detail and glassed new tubes to run through stringers. Also installed new limber tubes from fiberglass handle stock. Trying to pour foam in next two days and be able to patch miscellaneous stringer cutouts, cap with 3x 1708, and then wrap 2x 1708 onto bottom. Liner is almost completely de-cored and will glue up Divinycell and mounting pads for leanpost etc.

Removing the core from the liner was more work than I expected. The base of the coffin came out reasonably well and there were a few wet spots in the deck. Any where the balsa was still dry it came out hard. Finished up with a few hours of grinding with 36 grit and a shroud. Full Tyvek on a 90 degree afternoon is rough. I don't know how you guys do it down in the Sunshine State. The Divinycell has since been glued in and the stringers have been foamed and leveled. I plan to lay up two layers of 1708 on the liner and drop it back in to check clearance before laying glass on stringers.

What thickness are you using on the deck core and on the sides of the hull?

Why did you core the sides of the hull, what value do you see from doing this and what was your lamination schedule on there?

The core is H80 1/2” Divinycell. I’m planning on 2 layers of 1708 for the bottom of the deck. As far as coring the sides of the hull, I have seen it on a bunch of the more involved builds starting with Strick, dirtwheels, I think BTK,...It always seemed like a drum skin when you slapped the sides and just assume it will deaden the whole structure. I just put one layer of 1708 on the sides to seal it up. The balsa core seemed more like 3/8”. I understand why most people chose to cut the deck, leave a lip around the edge, and pad the stringers but I started down the path one way and kept going.

Since you didn't cut the floor out and kept the liner whole I'm assuming you're not raising the floor ?

That’s right. I never had a problem even with a 410 lb DF140 on the transom. Installed ball scuppers and it lived on a mooring all summer. I figure with composites and shaving a fair amount of weight (fish box/shorter tank with forward bias/etc.) I could keep it original deck height. Anxious to let you know how that works out.

Nice, Im closely following your build as I am going down the same path of removing the entire liner and replacing the core that way as well, im trying to keep as much of the original as possible,

Was the deck sitting on the stringers the whole way along?

My 85s core is 3/4

Same here. Appreciate seeing another one going the same way and watching you chisel out your core. Thought it would be a piece of cake after the transom peeled away. When I took out the back section I realized that there was no bond all the way forward. If you look at the earlier pictures, the top of the starboard stringer was rolled and the plywood/putty had failed a long time ago. That was when I realized a needed to rebuild stringers and I am happy I did because they were both cracked at the rigging channel under the console. Hoping to fine tune and get a consistent 1/4" to 1/2" gap. Have a local guy that will shoot Plexus for me. That will be a good day. I'm ordering another 5 gallons of epoxy and cut a lot of cloth last night. Keep the pictures coming.

I guess this would be the first snag as I put things back together and obviously a concern all along. Two layers of 1708 over the coring in the liner back in August and I have been mostly tuning up and tabbing the stringers back in at the transom. The clearance is what I had hoped for other than one high spot. My problem is the alignment at the cut line behind the casting deck. The liner sat on a 5’ x 10’ stud framed bench so I could weigh the core down and presumably keep it flat. I expect that the sides relaxed down over a few weeks and when I laminated it, the angle from horizontal to vertical got too steep. The picture shows about a 3/8” gap when I snap the liner down at the starboard side.

What I am hoping is that I can cut a kerf in the horizontal plane of the Divinycell and let the side flex to a more open angle (maybe 30” back each side). Fill it back with a little thickened epoxy and have less fairing. Hate to break the seal but need to try something. Any ideas?

May be able to bridge the gap and screw some 1/4” ply in a few places to pull the 2 halves back together? Put some packing tape on the backside so it doesn’t get glued. Or use some starboard, nothing will stick to it... might have some more fairing work to get the tortured pieces looking like one again but I’d try that before cutting that new bottom.

Thanks Chris. Will see how much I can pull it back while it is still sitting in there dry. Had planned to glue a Coosa/1708 stiffener under the front section as a butt block. Probably should have asked if there was a better place to make that cut.

Sorry if all the pictures look the same. Finished wrapping the stringers last night with a final two layers of 17 oz biax. Adjusted the hook in my liner and will dry fit once more before bonding it. I had hoped to have a guy shoot Plexus but fighting to get a response. To the guys who just use thickened epoxy to bed deck to stringers, would you go tropical hardener and just cabosil? Temperatures are 50s at best up here now. I can roll back into the garage and heat up a single bay. Just concerned about being able to mix enough material by myself. Slow drill and a plastic "turbine" style paddle?

Id get everything up to about 75* and use the tropical for the working time. You can throw some glass in the mix too if youve got big gaps. 2/3 of a gallon is about all ill mix at a time by myself, make sure youve got a big pot and use the paddle like you said. 2.5 or 3gal buckets work well.

Probably will end up being at least 1.5gal of material depending how tight the liner fits to the stringers, also you dont need to cover the whole width of the stringer, a few inches is fine.

Get it bedded then keep the heat up for a day

That’s what I needed. Thank you. Hoping that was the last bilge shot I post.

Lucked out and got two days in the 60?s. I know that?s not all that exciting for a lot of you but for New England it is an absolute gift. The liner is glued in and it feels like a big milestone. Nice to walk on a solid deck. Back to grinding and glassing seams. No way I am missing another summer.

Best trailer built! Nice to see one on the Cape! Continue on!

Vezo, Part II

I do my homework. Well worth the money to ship it here. Great people too.

Great job! Looking forward to see how she turns out.

I feel like I am reaching a point where the items on the list are a little more manageable and there might be a light at the end of the tunnel. Part of the project was trying to close in the toe space under the helm since there is so little storage on an 18. I tried to replicate the original flange assuming it would go back as is. But somewhere in your head you say why don’t I add a little more scope. So I spent a night making up some 2x2 angle with 1700. Set the console and glued new angle to inside face. Once that is cured I will carve off the flange and try to get a clean edge to caulk at the deck. Also got my fuel tank dry fit and glued up mounting blocks. I’ll get a better picture when they are glassed in but you know where to look for the best example. The gunnel sections are recored with Divinycell and Airex at hardware mounting areas. Two layers of 1700. Epoxy has some white pigment and I’m wondering what you guys think about that as final finish in bilge lockers etc. Just roll on a coat to fill in the weave? Yes, a lot of fairing left.

Console is de-flanged. It’s only about 1.25” of deck space but I like the look already and it will be easier to clean. The two small breaks at the back are due to a conflict with rigging tubes which go through back of the coffin. I went conservative on the fuel tank dimensions to push it forward and ended up with a little less than 30 gallons. Not planning any Bahamas trips so it should serve my needs.

I like the de- flanged center console a lot. It gives it a real clean line. Nice work