2007 Etec 175 Questions
 

Considering purchasing a 2007 175 with less than 300 hours for my 20sf. I know in general CSC is etec leaning, with performance to weight ratio I understand why. The engine has not been run in 6 months when it was last taken off the boat it was on. Before taking it off the boat, the current owner took it to and etec dealer and had the print out done on it. Is there anything I should be worried about with this engine. Anything to look for? Also, trying to figure out how to read the engine history report.( which I have tried to attach.)

As always, thank you very much for your input guys.

Cheers, RyBones

What's with the #4 cylinder pressure at -56 and the rest at 0? Or "coeff A and B" on the #2 cylinder so opposite of the other cylinders? Why do they make this so confusing? :)

I definitely don't understand all the coefficient stuff but if you get it I suggest you change the impeller; they develop a 'set' from sitting and it looks like the peak temps near 200 are on the warm side - same thing you would get from a weak impeller.

Like Bushwacker, I love my 2006 Etec 150. Had estimated 275 hours on it when I bought the SeaFari, used it about 25 hours, and had the 300 hour service done at 299 hours! But I thought my printout was more similar to a Yamaha engine history, ie, amount of time spent in 1k rpm increments. Good observation Mitch!

I’d buy another one, or buy this one and I’d trade it for a 1999 Johnson 175 with 162 original hours! Haha. Seriously, don’t know asking price, but I love my Etec.

Vezo, Part II

Since the ECM is cooled by the engine's water I would thing that not having the ECM no higher in temperature than the water is a good thing.

if you head over to barnacle bills website, they can tell you anything you need to know. it is an etec owners website. just put up the serial number and show them the pic you have of the eco printout and they'll give you a dissertation-on the engine

Thanks
 

Thank you very much for the input guys. As always, you are a wealth of knowledge and very appreciated.

link to the group:

https://www.etecownersgroup.com

Nope
 

I spoke with the dealer that did that service and they gave me an explanation of what I was looking at , and whether or not they understood, they definitely couldn't explain it very well. Well at least the gentleman I spoke with there. But it did seem like they were very nice in trying to be awful. However since then, Apparently the seller changed his mind and has gone dark on me. so I'm still looking for an E-Tec. I'd really prefer a 200 anyhow. But thanks everybody for your help to my last minute questions. :-)

Rybones- There may be some disagreement, but 175HP seems plenty for your sf20. With a ETEC 150 HO (approx. 165HP), I hit 50 mph with an incorrect prop on my 175HP max rated, 20' Seafari; seemed too fast for my comfort. With a High Five prop I can hit 42mph which my barefooting buddy requests.

There's no argument, the 175 should be plenty fast and is a perfect fit for the 20 SF. I currently have a 94 Evinrude 150 that runs great and tops out at about 45 WOT. But me personally, I'd like to see at least another five miles an hour top end, additionally I come from a family if big people and have some pretty darn big friends too. So the extra horses comes in handy when you're hauling around a lot of meat. Whether it's Justified or not, I guess at the end of the day the real answer is, just because I want it. :-)

Remember you from Hommasassa and you are a big guy. If thats want yiu want that is reason enough. I am raising my transom to accommodate occasional large guests. Go for it!

Got it but have no clue
 

After the seller going dark on me, I got a call back and he made me an offer that even Spidercrab couldn't pass up. So now the 175 is sitting on the floor in the shop and has been for like a week while I figure out if i'm gonna pull the boat apart and now do the re-coring, close in the transom completely, hang the new full flotation bracket I bought 2 weeks ago and then rig the new engine or If I'm going to install the bracket and the engine run it for a bit and find and plan the proper balance and COG before I tear it apart and re-core it and do moderate but through refit to include live well and a trolling gps anchor system. I'v got a ton of question that I'll be asking soon. After I get everything done for the day, I'm back in the groove of late nights falling asleep at the computer while reading up on my future itching fits.

CG Shift
 

Ryan-
If you haven’t seen it I made a post, think it was 9-24–16. Subject was estimating CG shift due to heavy engines or brackets. A way to apply numbers and some science to reduce quess work and to experiment with temporarily placed weights. There are some good additional remarks by Bushwacker and others. Best wishes.

Hermco Set Back
 

Thanks Terry, thats good stuff. I'm still trying to absorb it a little to where I can see it in my head 3D at the moment its still a little clunky upstairs but it has all the basics needed to dial it in.

Do you know the set back of the Hermco bracket..26?

Does mounting height of bracket (within standard reason) have much if any affect on its value as a lever arm?

I imagine I am giving myself plenty of wiggle room with my 12"x12" trim tabs (provided I go ahead and set it up as close to COG as I reasonably can), but are there any other considerations I should should make because of the tabs?

Lastly, what if ... someone... were to also have a hydraulic jack-plate adding an additional 6"inch set back (taking that into consideration for the lever arm too), any thoughts on pros or cons or comments? (someone we all know recommended I do jackplate on bracket with a good argument but I really think he just wants to see someone do it for the sake of experimentation, while he sits back, has a smoke and watches Frankenstein build a monster..

Ryan=
Sorry for the delay, I was out of town.

I used 2' for the engine location on a Hermco, don't remember if this was a guess or from Bushwacker.

There is also a vertical component of cg, which I ignored. I would expect little effect of engine height on the longitudinal cg. However with the length of the bracket you may need to raise your engine higher than you expect to get the AV plate on top of the water. Check for other posts on this. Bushwacker added a mechanical jack plate to his, for this very reason.

You asked about the additional effects on your cg if your 175HP ETEC were mounted on a hydraulic jack plate in addition to a bracket. I returned to my CG Change Estimator posted on 9-24-16. I used the “original example” except changed the hull weight from 1800# to 1600# and 418# for the ETEC to get a baseline cg of 4.8’ fwd of the transom. (This may not be where yours is, but we are talking changes here, so read on). Then for using the ETEC on a 200# bracket with the engine 2’ further aft the estimated cg is 3.9’ fwd of the transom or about 11” further aft with the bracket (similar to the results Bushwacker experienced when he put his ETEC 150 on a Hermco bracket. Then I considered the engine 6” further aft on a 50# hydraulic jack plate attached to a bracket which put the cg at a minuscule 1” further aft then without the jack plate. I think you mentioned your boat guests are hefty, so they may even compensate for the bracket mounted engine. Move them around to judge the effects. Bob Reiland who may have made 50 Bahama crossings on his SeaCraft 21’ Unoho didn’t have trim tables; he just moved people or cargo around to adjust trim.

Sorry Ryan, the 2' mentioned above was to the cg of the bracket. My example calculations were that the engine cg moved from 0.5' aft of the transom to 3' aft when on a bracket. Better let one of the Hermco bracket owners chime in on this. My examples were intended to be illustrative of the cg technique, not absolutes.

Thanks for all the info Terry, I've been tied up and haven't done anything yet, but we'll see if any bracket owners chime in.

On Bushwacker's old Seafari the bracket is 30" from transom to the back of the mounting plate measured along the swim platform. The manual jack plate is a touch less than 4". So the motor is moved way back behind the transom. Without trim tabs it can and will buck hard. By comparison, my yellow '78 with 175 Black Max on the transom was smooth with just engine trim.

I would be looking at 32" over all. What do you mean by "buck hard"?

Porpoising if I use no trim tab at all. I don’t have a fine touch with trim so I’m sure I start with too much until on plane. Then I trim engine and tabs up for best speed. Don’t get me wrong, it’s more then manageable. I just can’t firewall-it without thinking like the old boat.

Gotcha, and that makes perfect sense.

Stood the engine up and mounted on a homemade stand the other day. Wired it and then fired it on the first turn of the key. After a small ground issue. Was VERY happy about that because I wasn't happy that I bought an engine from someone upstate without hearing it run, and let it sit for 2 weeks eating at my soul as to the soundness of my actions. But it sounds great and is soo quiet compared to my otherwise flawless 94' 150 looper (Shhhhh. I haven't told her yet that we are going to have to find her a new home), and I have the etec Tech guy coming today to put the computer on it and do a compression test. If anyone sees this in time, any suggestions about questions to ask or things to look for? There is one very peculiar thing though, the EMM has 200HO etched into it. I know the 200 EMM could be fine for the 175 because both are the 60 degree block, but he 200 HO is the 90 degree block..... (Shifty eyed emoji)

Did a quick lookup in the BRP parts finder and the part number for the EMM (0586707) is the same for the 2007 175, the 200 and the 200HO.
If that eases your peace of mind any.
:)

That's an outstanding bit of info Erebus! Because even my mechanic that was on it today was a little stumped with that one. But I really can't thank you enough for that information. Overall everything seems good with the engine, few glitches, need to check water pump, although only 5 hours on the impeller apparently it's not functioning or efficiently enough. Hopefully it's just improperly seated seals. Missing Deutsch connector for oil tank connector. Missing plastic flywheel-EMM and injector covers/shrouds. Missing latches in Cowling for both sides, only front is intact. (Erebus, as you likely know the name association, my future 23 with the mercury 400hp is to be named "PBR Streetgang".)

:D http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...ons/icon14.gif

Rybones, I you don't mind me asking, how much did you get the E-tec for? I am looking for a good used motor for my 20MA and used e-tecs are rare around here. Seems like nobody ever sells them...

TFG, I was/have been looking pretty diligently for more than a year they are rare, I don't think you are going to find one for less than $5k and you have to act very quick. I have seen a few 175's and almost no 200's (25"). The 250's and 300's are far more common because of higher end repowers of twins. I have been looking for the 200 small block 60 degree because of the lighter weight as the 200HO is the larger block or 90 degrees and 100lbs heavier like the 225's and 250's. I still want a 200, but apparently I cant have one.

If you haven’t already checked it, there is a small cone shaped fine mesh filter in the vapor separator tank where the fuel return line attaches. Some dealers don’t even know about it because it wasn’t shown in the early parts books, so they often don’t check it. I ran my motor for 6+ years on E10 fuel and that filter clogged up. There were two 10 micron filters between the tank and that filter on my boat, so the black tar-like stuff evidently came from the fuel lines that were being dissolved by the E10 in the fuel! (I believe they upgraded fuel lines after my motor was built in 2006, so if an older motor, it might be worth upgrading to the latest lines.) If it’s clogged the same stuff will also be in the injectors. (Fuel Injector Man in Venice, Fl. has a special set up for flow testing and cleaning E-TEC injectors.) Easiest way to diagnose this problem is to check HP fuel pump discharge pressure at the Schrader valve fitting on the pump. It normally runs only about 35 psi (same simple Carter pump as used in most port injected cars!), but mine was 65 psi and I was having a problem with rough running at 900 rpm, but only when cold.) Since I had the 7 year warranty, BRP replaced all 6 injectors (worth about $2400!) and the motor was running like new with about 900 hrs on it when SSPBill bought it. Except for the fuel lines, the E-TEC injectors & pumps appear to be very tolerant to E10 fuel, but I only ran Rec 90 fuel after that!

If you have to change that filter in the vapor separator tank inlet, be very careful to minimize force on the nipple where it lives, because it’s easy to break off that plastic nipple! There is a little tang on the Oetiker clamps; if you cut it off with a Dremel tool, the clamps are easily removed.

One other comment regarding the 135/150/175/200 hp 2.7L E-TEC power ratings. They are all basically the same powerhead, but BRP appears to be very conservative on the power ratings on the lower HP versions. NAEBM requires that true HP be within +10% of advertised rating, so true HP on the 135/150 is about 10% more than advertised, and maybe +5% on the 175 and maybe 0 to -5% on the 200! So bottom line is that the lower HP motors are surprisingly stong and if you’re looking for a used motor, they may be a much better “bang for the buck” than the 200! Your WOT speed with a 200 may only be 2- 5 mph more than you’d get with a 150 or 175! Intake and exhaust port location (analogous to cam timing on a 4-stroke) and exhaust tuning tweaks often used to get max hp on 2-strokes may also adversely affect mid-range torque, so engines with a lower hp rating may actually have MORE mid-range torque that you want for getting on plane with a heavy load or hanging on plane at lower speed in rough seas! My experience is that a strong mid-range power band is typically more useful and desirable than a few mph at WOT.

This.
All this.
http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...ons/icon14.gif

Well put Bushwacker, that would be my sentiment on the torque aspects also. I am alsoaware of the VST filter and have reviewed information on extracting and inspecting that but haven't done so yet, its on my list.

As far as NAEBM and the Etec, is is my understanding that aside from the plus or minus 10% of HP rating the only difference between the 175 and 200 is the EMM settings, in fact that would be true for the 135 to 200, but the 135 and 150(?) have some physical exhaust port (or something to that affect) differences.

Regarding fuel lines, the boat had all fuel lines replaced 2 years ago, aside from those what lines (on the engine) are you referring to?

I cant find a Fuel Injector Man in Venice, but I found the same name operating right here in Naples, I think its the same guy.. maybe he moved..? Or did you just get your Italian cities mixed up. : ) He seems like the real deal and thanks for that nugget of info.

My etec guy seems ...good... and fair but I don't think he has the deep knowledge and experience with etecs that I want from someone I call "my mechanic". Looking for a recommendation for some one to make all the connections and fine tune it after I hang the engine. I want at least one really really seasoned guy to thoroughly go through the engine and correct any deficiencies that may have been missed. Iv'e been slow to hang it for just that reason. I'm willing to travel to east coast or perhaps even Tampa. Any suggestions from anyone?

Hey Ryan, have you dealt with these guys or heard anything on their service department? Not too far from you.

https://gulfcoastmarinecenter.com/

My new bride is Italian and she keeps me mixed up all the time!

Yes, I’m sure Fuel Injector Man is in Naples, not Venice. How fortunate that he’s right there in your backyard! I’ve spoken to him and he seems very knowledgeable. He used to be a devoted Merc/Yamaha fan, but said the E-TEC injectors produce the most beautiful spray pattern he’s ever seen and that made him an instant convert! He was so impressed with the design of the injectors and of the overall engine that he put a 175 E-TEC on his personal boat when his old Merc died.

In a 2-stroke motor, the vertical location and dimensions of the intake and exhaust ports, relative to the piston, determine the timing of the intake and exhaust events, much like the camshaft determines valve opening timing, duration and overlap in a 4-stroke. Even though the basic block dimensions are identical on all the 2.7L motors, it’s possible there are some subtle differences in the port machining between the 135 and 200. On any naturally aspirated engine, the hp/cubic inch ratio is often a good indicator of an engines temperament, i.e., low numbers = smooth idle, good low end torque; high numbers = rough idle and weak low speed torque but lots of power at high rpm. Boat surveyor Dave Pascoe said to beware of heavily turbocharged diesel engines that produce more than 1 HP/cu. in., as their durability is often no better than gas engines! The old marinized Perkins tractor engines in my trawler only make 135 hp @ 2800 rpm from 354 cubic inches, but they’re turning big 4B 27x21P props and will really make this 30 ton boat jump if you goose the throttle at idle! Very handy in close quarters maneuvering! They will easily push the boat to hull speed at about 1800 rpm, burning only ~ 2 gph each at ~ 8 kts.

Yes, Don they are 2 buildings over from my shop. Nick is the owner, nice guy, not cheap, but he did let me borrow a lifting ring the this engine, instead of making me buy one. He sticks very tight to MSRP. But they do have all the parts I've ever needed in stock and Juanna is parts is super nice, so I've got that going for me. I haven't yet used them for service because I had been using Ronnie at Phantom Marine. Very knowledgeable, through, super reasonable and quick. But he doesn't do Etecs.

Denny, Do you know if the Fuel Injector Man does Etec service and rigging? I guess I could call and ask.

He only cleans injectors. I did my own rigging and service. Those motors are fairly simple to work on, so get a service manual and do it yourself. You can also download an installation manual from the E-TEC site.

One thing you need to have done after installation is have a dealer run the fuel system restriction test. They tee in a vacuum gage in fuel line between tank and motor and then use laptop to run fuel pump at max flow with a fuel line putting it back in your tank, but don’t need to run motor. I think limit is 5” Hg vacuum. It’s required on all new engines because they’ve found some problems on the boat side on repowers. These new engines run so lean that they won’t tolerate fuel starvation that leans them out further. I bought a vacuum gage for the Racor filter that records max vacuum and lets you know when it’s time to change the filter. I think I did a post on that.

its 4 inches of vacuum, the best way for this test is to run the boat. That way you doent need the computer