Water intrusion into Johnson VRO 140's on 23 CC

squidrig · #1 09-23-2002, 02:01 PM

Hello All,
I've got a question hopefully some of you can help me out with. Setup as follows: Twin Johnson 140 VRO's on a flotation bracket mounted on a 23'Seacraft, 4 fuel tanks(two 25gals in the stern on either side, one under center console, one forward of console). Normally I run off the two main tanks(cc console and forward of console each are 55 gallons). I keep the rear two tanks @ 25 gals each empty for weight distribution issues. Friday filled up rear tanks because I was going offshore along with two main tanks (160 gallons total). Saturday, bad weather so didn't go offshore and ran off the two middle main tanks. Problem/Situation: The boat ran fine all day, after coming back 12 miles from home in 7-9 ft seas port engine quits will running at about 3000 rpms. Poke in on one engine. Sunday morning engine kicks over for 5 seconds and quits. Take off Carburetor cover and a mixture off water and gas comes pouring out. Clean plugs, blow any moisture out of cylinders, drain carburetor plugs. Crank the engine and it starts. Run the boat all day Sunday off two main tanks, start heading back in and again 12 miles out the engine dies. Take cover off carb and a little water drips out, drain carb plugs and clean spark plugs and engine still will not start. Water separator has a little sediment in it and pretty clean gas, minimal water. I would appreciate any sort of help. Thanks.

JohnB · #2 09-23-2002, 02:45 PM

Squidrig,
I ran johnson VRO's on my last boat of 8 years. They were just about indestructable. What's puzzeling to me, is you detect water in the carbs, but not much water in the separator. I could only think of 3 things:
1. If you where in tall seas, and these engines are on a bracket they may be getting wet, maybe water is getting in around the covers. The covers on those were not really tightlly sealed, and sometimes in rough seas, I would have salt water get on the back of the motor, and short out plug wires. Never had the whole engine shut down, but lost a cylinder a couple of times.
2. Maybe you need to change the cartridge on the water separator. It might be letting water in. I know for fact, that if the separator is full, it will let water pass thru to the engine. Cartridges are alot cheaper than motors.
3. Maybe a gas line or primer has a leak, and it is sucking in water thru the leak. Alot of lines on engines with brackets are located in pretty wet places.
In any case, post back what you find out.

squidrig · #3 09-23-2002, 03:17 PM

Hey John,
Water seperator looked fine with good gas in it, changed it anyways though. I'm wondering if there is any vacuum around that carb cover that would pull that much water in. The gaskets didn't look too hot either. Basically after the water seperator there is only the fuel pump and lines before the carb. There was condensation around the top two carb barrels as well. I can't imagine how that much water could get inside a that carb cover even if the gaskets were slightly damaged. I'll let you know what turns out. What engines are you running now?

Briguy · #4 09-23-2002, 04:08 PM

Squidrig,

My small flats boat will take in water throught the gas vent in rough seas. Perhaps if this is only happening on one motor, the vent on that side has a problem.

How do you like your flotation bracket? If you put it on, is there any performance improvement over transom mounted? Does the boat sit lower in the water or higher that before? Any answers will be greatly appreciated as I am in the process of installing my dual flotation bracket!!!! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

JohnB · #5 09-23-2002, 07:57 PM

squidrig,
I have a 98 Merc 250 EFI motor on my 23' Scepter. Seems to work real well operationally, but has a little bit of a drinking problem. If water was coming in the vent and the water separator is working, you sould have found water in the separator and the carbs. If the water separator is working, it must be coming in from some place between the filter and the carb. I hate to ask the obvious, but with 4 tanks, and 2 motors, there isn't any way that gas is getting to the motor without going thru the filter? Did the carbs have any junk in them? Sounds like a mystery to me.

Lucky Dog · #6 09-24-2002, 12:47 PM

I had a 140 johnson on my 20 cc before repower to a 150. the 140 would die on me after a short run. I finally discovered the gasket between the bottom of the powerhead and the foot(at the bottom of the cowl) was pulled out letting water enter the bottom of the cowl. a screw that held the carb cover on was out of the bottom hole and when the water entered the engine cowl the carb sucked in the water. replaced the screw and pushed the rubber gasket back in to seal the water leak and that solved the problem. hope yours is as simple as mine was,it was frustrating to say the least until I found the problem! later, Lucky Dog

antique · #7 09-24-2002, 02:19 PM

Squidrig,

You mentioned that you keep the two rear tanks empty, except for offshore trips. You may be having a condensation [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] problem in thoes tanks . I would look into a drygas to help remove any condensation that may have built up in the tanks wile being empty.
Good Luck
Antique

squidrig · #8 09-24-2002, 02:54 PM

Thanks...the gasket on the cover to the carb cover doesn't look too good and the small orange rubber gasket that sits inside the cover needs replacing as well. I'm going to start there and see what happens. My concern with the rear tanks is the weight problem. I never had a chance to run the rear tanks so I don't think that is the source of water. I do however plan to add dry gas because of the chance that condensation did build up.

squidrig · #9 09-24-2002, 02:58 PM

Briguy...I wish I could help you out with the comparison question but the bracket was added before I boat the boat. The boat sits a little low in the back but really has no problem getting out of the hole. If you would like to check it or take a ride in it, let me know.

Bigshot · #10 09-30-2002, 03:00 PM

Squid.....did you drain the seperator? Gas obviously floats on water so you will not know that a filter is full of water unless you pour it in a glass jar. I would do as Briguy suggests with a vent or something. Can you access the tanks to see if rain is puddling on them and coming in somehow? Keep searching as i believe it is impossible to suck that much water into an engine shroud while under way(unless shrouds were off along with flame arrestor). Even if you did, it would not kill it, just sputter and run like crap. If both carbs are sucking water, it is definately coming in through the gas line...what about VRO tank?