Moseley 21' video ?

[bgreene]

Would like to see video of the " holy grail" running in 2,3,4 foot seas......

Wonder if any of the few owners have any to share ?

[Bushwacker]

"Videos" didn't exist when these boats were in their prime in the 60's, but maybe Kmoose got some of Terry's boat running at our Anclote gathering last year. Would be neat if we could get some videos of Terry's 21 and the 25 Seafaris of Connor and Dave running offshore up at the Long Point in May! I think Big Shrimpin has posted a link to a movie of an early Bahamas 500 (maybe '67) that showed some raceboats running in 6'+ seas. Carla's web site has a lot of info on the race results showing the 21 beating a lot of much bigger more powerful inboards and most all of the outboards! .

1st pic below is one I took of the Unohu in the late '70's on a run across the 10-20' deep Little Bahama Bank north of Grand Bahama in the 2' square waves (2' high & 2' apart!) typical of the shallow Bank with the wind bucking the current. Note that owner Bob has his wife sitting in aft facing seat to heal the boat to stbd away from the waves, effectively increasing deadrise relative to waves. (He didn't use trim tabs . . . he just moved folks around in the boat for lateral trim!) I followed him back across the Gulf Stream from West End in 10 kt winds that clocked from the NW, to N to NE and taught me why everyone says "Stay the hell out of the stream if wind is from any northern quadrant!" Seas were about 2-4' on stbd bow at the start (which had my Seafari airborne at 20 kts on about every 10th wave! This was my first Bahama trip, so Bob called back on VHF and said "I'm seeing and awful lot of daylight under your boat, like everything but the prop! Get over in my wake about 2 boat lengths off the transom and you'll be a lot more comfortable!" He also slowed down a bit and that helped me to at least stay in the water!). In the middle of the stream wind was N, producing steep 6-8' breaking seas on the beam, shifting to NE with 2-4' steep breaking seas on stbd quarter for about the last 20 nm. The waves were so steep and close together on the last segment I was concerned about stuffing the bow into the wave ahead and pitchpoling, so when a big one came along, I'd turn up into it and back off throttle. Lots of throttle jockeying on that trip and I sure wished I'd had a solid transom back then! The 60 nm trip took 4 hrs, so we averaged about 15 kts.

This trip taught me a lot about the SeaCraft's robust construction . . . the Wellcraft V-20 running with us was virtually destroyed! The back-to-back seats disintegrated, the saddle tanks broke loose at the bracket welds, there was a big crack in the cabin bulkhead, and there was a 4' crack in the hull where a plywood stringer had come loose. On my Seafari, a few screws at the bottom of the cabin bulkhead were loose, but that was the only problem! Bob, in the 21, didn't think it was that bad of a trip, as he and Beth had ridden comfortably up front sitting down the entire trip!

2nd pic is an early morning flat water shot I took on our return from Green Turtle Cay, running along coast of Great Abaco in Abaco Sound. Last pic is one of Terry's boat that helps you visualize why I think the old 21, along with maybe the 25 Seafari which has very similar hull sections up forward, is the best riding of all SeaCraft models!

[Islandtrader]

I am waiting for a few of my snow bird buddies to come down with there go pros and then maybe we can get some shots...

[bgreene]

And WHY isn't a 21' boat hull built like this today ?

I don't get is - is the design still under patent protection ?

I believe one or two of you SeaCraft guys was working on getting it going but not sure it took off.

Of course very expensive to launch a boat company, but wow, demand for this hull should be huge.

[Islandtrader]

Originally Posted by bgreene

And WHY isn't a 21' boat hull built like this today ?

I don't get is - is the design still under patent protection ?

I believe one or two of you SeaCraft guys was working on getting it going but not sure it took off.

Of course very expensive to launch a boat company, but wow, demand for this hull should be huge.

I think I can answer the above questions...

No on patent protection...

Lack of interest and lack of some real capital and time investment.

Not really...50 years ago this was something special...now it is lost in the crowd of step hulls and other hulls that are a variant of Mr. Moeslys original design.

Think of it in car terms...there is hardly a car of 50 years ago(we know which ones might) that can out perform a Toyota Camry...Hell a Camry is faster than the Barracuda Formula S that I had back in 1966...

Of course this is my opinion...there will be others I am sure.

[bgreene]

Maybe but I haven't seen a hull like this .......

Ok, I suppose a 23' Regulator rides similarly.

[Bigshrimpin]

Bgreene - Please see attached article. Race results speak for themselves. All you have to do is read the description of the 1967 Bahamas 500 race below from Time Magazine and comprehend a 21ft hull finished a 512 mile race in the conditions described below. Not just one 21ft seacraft, but 3 of the 16 finishers were 21ft Seacraft hulls. Please note the average speed of the top 2 seacraft finishes . . . . 31mph and 34mph and that only 16 of the 63 boats actually finished. You just need to use your imagination a little

************************************************** **************
This was part of the Time Magazine Article from 1967:

If Monaco was a dice with disaster, the Bahamas 500 ocean powerboat race last week turned into what one contestant aptly termed "a demolition derby." The general idea of ocean powerboat racing is to take a boat out into the deep, open her up to 50-60 m.p.h., and pray. The Bahamas 500 was designed as the granddaddy of them all—a 512-mi. circle around the islands from Grand Bahama, and all for $50,000 in prize money. It should have been $1,000,000, considering the carnage.

On race day, a stiff 22-knot wind built up 6-ft. to 10-ft. waves. But out they went, 63 of the fastest, most expensive outboards, inboards, diesels and stern drives ever assembled on one patch of water. Bill Petty's Pussy Cat, a 23-ft., 550-h.p. Sportsman worth $20,000, was barely clear of the harbor when it caught fire and burned to the water line. Minutes later, Bill Lewis' 40-ft. Formula came apart and sank. Only 32 boats reached the initial checkpoint at Bimini; of these, twelve never reached Nassau.

At that point, the leader was Bill Wishnick's 32-ft. Maritime, Big Broad Jumper, powered by two monstrous 700-h.p. Holman & Moody engines. Then the rudder fouled. That left the race to Mono. Lou III, another 32-ft. Maritime powered by twin 427-h.p. MerCruisers and piloted by Florida's Odell Lewis, 34, who used to wrestle alligators for sport until it got too tame. Bounding along at an average 50 m.p.h., he finished in 12 hr. 36 min. 20 sec., just as darkness closed in on Grand Bahama. "I ain't afraid of alligators," he said, "but nothing is going to keep me out there on that ocean after dark."

Skippers of the 15 other survivors had to live through some dark moments before they came limping in during the next 22 hours. By what seems a miracle, no one was killed in the race, or even seriously injured.

************************************************** ************
This is from the 1968 Bahama's 500 (The year after the bad 1967 bahama's 500)
************************************************** ************
http://vimeo.com/5671455

Some race footage starts at 15 minutes.

[Islandtrader]

All of this is a mute point...No-one is making a 21 and thats the end of story...

I know this is going to sound like blasphemy ...however if I did not like doing the restoration project and having a boat that is "different" I know for the $$ that I spent, there are boats out there just as good, and 50 years younger...

[flyingfrizzle]

I will say this, there is something special about owning a true classic especially one that you blood sweet and tears have been poured into. Like Island T. said if you want a good running ruff sea boat there are some out there tailored to what ever needs you have but if you want something to be proud of with a rich history that is special in its own kind of way then you may join the many hunting for one of these "Holy Grails". What makes this boat special is not just its great ability to ride in ruff seas and its ride characteristics but knowing its rich history. Its true rareness and value as a true classic that survived the years of service. You can make a copy and splash one but even then you are not going to have what makes this hull special, you will just have a good riding boat. A matching numbered Camaro will always be worth more than the nicest copy you may build.

Some things are just worth the wait, and those who are patient may be rewarded one day......(I hope)

[Blue_Heron]

Originally Posted by Islandtrader

All of this is a mute point...No-one is making a 21 and thats the end of story...

The lines of the 21 are classic, probably too classic to sell in today's market. But we know the secret, don't we? The magic is in the lines below the chine. I think if someone would build a boat with the Moesly 21 running surface, mated to topides that look like this:



It might be a boat that would sell. The picture is a boat built from Shine's Carolina Sportfish 23 plans. If he offered a variant based on the Moesly 21 VDH hull, I think it would be a very cool boat.

Dave