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  #1  
Old 04-08-2011, 05:33 PM
Skink Skink is offline
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Default Re: Real world #'s on a 20' CC with a 140 4S Suzuki?

Great replies guys, thanks so much!

I see the Etec is more power, less moving parts and lighter. Unfortunately my wallet would be lighter by about $1,500 if I go with that. Have to check out the warranties on the two, it may be worthwhile spending the extra $. The numbers you are posting are VERY impressive, I think the etec may be worth the extra $.

If I were to run the scuppers out the transom, I would have to go through the livewell, and dry storage. Does anyone see an issue with them going out either side?



I really appreciate the feedback so far guys.
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  #2  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:35 PM
Mark Mark is offline
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Default Re: Real world #'s on a 20' CC with a 140 4S Suzuki?

1971 20'
140 Suzuki
75 gallon fuel tank
deck raised 2.5"
WOT with full tank of fuel 41-42mph

in gallery - "Mark's 1971 20"
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  #3  
Old 04-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Skink Skink is offline
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Default Re: Real world #'s on a 20' CC with a 140 4S Suzuki?

Mark, if those #'s are 100% accurate, that seals the deal for me. I'll go with the Suzuki.

My neighbor the engineer has a twin vee with twin Zuke 140 4S that have been in tip top shape for years. I know he's done all the maintenance on his( Maybe not adjusting the valves) and is chomping at the bit to show me everything that needs to be done..

Thanks again guys, this is a great site.
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  #4  
Old 04-10-2011, 10:19 PM
KenB KenB is offline
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Default Re: Real world #'s on a 20' CC with a 140 4S Suzuki?

PM me and I will email you the DF140 manuals I have collected thus far.
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  #5  
Old 04-08-2011, 10:43 PM
Bushwacker Bushwacker is offline
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Default Re: Real world #'s on a 20' CC with a 140 4S Suzuki?

Quote:
I see the Etec is more power, less moving parts and lighter. Unfortunately my wallet would be lighter by about $1,500 if I go with that.
Take a careful look at maintenance costs on the 4 stroke, because you could easily spend that $1500 "savings" on the required 4S maintenance in the first couple of years! Ship Shape TV recently did a comparison between the E-TEC and Zuke maintenance requirements. In the first 3 years where you spend ZERO on the E-TEC, the dealer quoted well over $2000 in maintenance costs for the 4-stroke! They also looked at Yamaha, which had similar or even higher costs. I'd be asking how much of that maintenance you could do yourself without voiding the warranty!

Speaking of warranties, when the E-TECs first came out, they had a 7 year warranty, the first 3 of which were with BRP, and the last 4 with a 3rd party outfit. I understand the current extended warranties are now direct with BRP. They have a great reputation for handling warranty claims, so I would consider that an improvement over the 3rd party deal, although I've had no personal experience with either one.
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  #6  
Old 04-09-2011, 03:01 AM
KenB KenB is offline
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Default Re: Real world #'s on a 20' CC with a 140 4S Suzuki?

Quote:
Quote:
I see the Etec is more power, less moving parts and lighter. Unfortunately my wallet would be lighter by about $1,500 if I go with that.
Take a careful look at maintenance costs on the 4 stroke, because you could easily spend that $1500 "savings" on the required 4S maintenance in the first couple of years! Ship Shape TV recently did a comparison between the E-TEC and Zuke maintenance requirements. In the first 3 years where you spend ZERO on the E-TEC, the dealer quoted well over $2000 in maintenance costs for the 4-stroke! They also looked at Yamaha, which had similar or even higher costs. I'd be asking how much of that maintenance you could do yourself without voiding the warranty!

Speaking of warranties, when the E-TECs first came out, they had a 7 year warranty, the first 3 of which were with BRP, and the last 4 with a 3rd party outfit. I understand the current extended warranties are now direct with BRP. They have a great reputation for handling warranty claims, so I would consider that an improvement over the 3rd party deal, although I've had no personal experience with either one.
When etech first came out they had huge issues with cold temps and sticky oil. More than a few blew up. They had a great reputation for honoring warranties compared to OMC, but not too many 4s are known to blow up with catastrophic block failures the way etechs or HPDIs did.

I am going to have to call shenanigans on this... the suzi, yami, and honda maintenance costs are no where near what this guy is posting. He has been all over the site throwing up sort of silly numbers about ETEC versus japanese 4 strokes... makes me wonder if he is on the payroll or something.

Go look at the miami show. Go look at what is hanging off of 90% of the legit boat brands that are not owned by engine manufacturers... all yami. And the guys who repower tend to do suzi's for good reason.

The bottom line is that you can't go wrong with a 4s or a ficht I mean etec... they are all great engines. Anyone who claims any one of these new engines is way better than any other is any either on the payroll or... go check your local dealer network, buy the cheapest best thing you can. I personally would do a TLDI/Opti over an etech/HPDI based on what happens if you kink your fuel lines, and I would do a DF140 over anything except maybe a TLDI 115.

DF140 is a proven motor, even with all of the plastic parts inside. I guess my point is that a new engine, 4s, high pressure or low pressure 2s, porsche turbo charged, whatever, they are all great. DF140 is just a wee bit better than the rest and has the record to prove it.
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  #7  
Old 04-09-2011, 04:19 PM
Mark Mark is offline
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Default Re: Real world #'s on a 20' CC with a 140 4S Suzuki?

I personally know someone who was 3' from an E-Tec that blew up with flames everywhere. I'm not that brave anymore.

The only flames I've experienced was when Capt. Chuck....wait, that was another incident altogether, nevermind [img]/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 04-09-2011, 08:32 PM
DonV DonV is offline
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Default Re: Real world #'s on a 20' CC with a 140 4S Suzuki?

Quote:
makes me wonder if he is on the payroll or something
Denny.....you been holding back on us????? You've been making the big bucks all this time from BRP and did not even tell us!!!! I'm thinking a round on you at the gathering in June!!! I'm kinda fond of single malt scotch.
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Old 04-11-2011, 03:17 AM
Bushwacker Bushwacker is offline
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Default Re: Real world #'s on a 20' CC with a 140 4S Suzuki?

Quote:
I am going to have to call shenanigans on this... the suzi, yami, and honda maintenance costs are no where near what this guy is posting. He has been all over the site throwing up sort of silly numbers about ETEC versus japanese 4 strokes... makes me wonder if he is on the payroll or something.

KenB - “this guy” is a licensed Professional Engineer that has learned in 45 years of mechanical engineering practice that it is not wise to post ANYTHING that I have not thoroughly researched or had personal experience with. I am NOT on anyone’s payroll and I resent the implication that I’m an irresponsible salesman – I am simply a very satisfied owner. I can substantiate all of the “silly numbers” on fuel/oil consumption and speeds with fuel used and GPS records from my log book and Excel spreadsheets if anyone cares to PM me with an e-mail address. When I was trying to make a repower decision 5 years ago, I had the same questions that many other forum members currently have. The forum member was requesting real world numbers and that’s what I provided. I was trained to make decisions based on facts, not on hearsay and 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand info, and I respect his request for the facts. I felt that other forum members might be interested in what I learned from several years of intensive research on the subject. The forum members who know me well would tell you that, when I am about to spend big $ on something, I am notorious for literally “beating it to death” and being a royal PIA when it comes to research and asking questions of the factory engineers at the annual Miami Boat Show!

I believe the maintenance cost is a valid issue that merits discussion, because on the surface it simply looks like a scheme for increasing dealer profits. I really wonder how many folks literally follow the recommendations? I had TiVo’d the Shipshape TV Episode on engine maintenance so reviewed it again today to make sure I got it right. (It aired here on 3/21/11) Griviskes interviewed the service manager at the dealer here that I was considering buying a Zuke from. (I notice BRP is now one of his sponsors, so one could argue that he's not exactly unbiased!) Here’s what the service manager quoted on the Suzuki Service Manual Maintenance Requirements: 20 hr service (or 1 Mo.), $300; 50 hr service (or 3 Mo.), $300; 100 hr/1 yr service, $600-650; Total for 3 years: $2400, minimum. Was $2475 for Yamaha. Seems like a lot for what are basically oil changes and greasing a few fittings. I paid $661 for the 3 yr service on the E-TEC, which included water pump change, 2 new thermostats, a poppet valve, and gear oil change. The Albury Boats guy on the show said these services had to be done at dealer or it would void warranty, but I don’t know why you couldn’t do that yourself if you could prove you did it. Car warranties don’t required dealer oil changes. If any owners here know the true story on this issue, I'm sure many of the forum folks would like to know! At 500 hrs, a valve lash check is required for $800. If adjustments are needed that’s more $. I can see where you’d lose some performance it it opened up but I wouldn’t think bucket tappets with shims would change that much in 500 hrs. The old Jags had that setup and I don't recall them requiring checks that often.

Like most folks considering a repower, I initially figured that 4-strokes were the only way to go and I had been watching their development for several years. I initially considered the Zuke 115 and then the 140 and I was impressed by their attention to significant engineering details, such as the chain cam drive bathed in oil at the bottom of the motor and the offset driveshaft that lets them get more gear reduction to swing a bigger more efficient prop without the drag of a large diameter bullet in the gearcase. The Suzuki’s are still my favorite 4 stroke motor for those reasons. I've previously discussed why I picked the E-TEC.

I was admittedly skeptical about the new technology, but discussions with a colleague of mine that is now the chief engineer of the BRP test center in Stuart convinced me that all of the Ficht horror stories were irrelevant and that BRP had figured out the problems and fixed them. Subsequent experience has exceeded expectations. Also nice to see a “Made in USA” product be so competitive for a change! I think we're in agreement that all of the new motors are a big improvement from what was available only a few years ago. As far as fuel restrictions causing problems, ANY piston engine is susceptible to overheated/seized pistons if subjected to lean conditions from a clogged injector, and the extra oxygen molecule in ethanol certainly makes the lean fire hotter. Also the more overpowered you are, the less likely you are to notice a problem until it’s too late! I once had a plugged high speed jet in my old 115 that I might not have noticed if I’d had a V-6. At least the new oil injected DI motors still get oil under those conditions instead of being starved for gas AND oil as in the old days with a plugged jet! A thermocouple in the exhaust (an Exhaust Gas Temperature or EGT sensor) like used on some HD diesels, would detect on extra-lean situation. Will be interesting to see if an enterprising guy comes up with an aftermarket gage for that!

Sorry for the long post, but my conscience just couldn’t let this one go unchallenged!

DonV – I’m not a Scotch drinker, but I’ll have some fine ancient Bourbon imported from Kentucky at our next gathering that I'll be happy to share! Denny
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  #10  
Old 04-11-2011, 10:19 AM
DonV DonV is offline
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Default Re: Real world #'s on a 20' CC with a 140 4S Suzuki?

Quote:
DonV – I’m not a Scotch drinker, but I’ll have some fine ancient Bourbon imported from Kentucky at our next gathering that I'll be happy to share! Denny
Thanks Denny!!! My pleasure!
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