pilot house ?

[fat2nawilly]

I've been busy building this one for a buddy of mine, It's not a classic but it is a seacraft. beautiful lines!

[21ftcc]

So how much weight did it add?

[pelican]

lookin' good willy...

you guys who used wood,why ? just curious,composites would allow you to save alot of weight,plus,composites last indefinatley...

[kitebuz]

fat - that PH job is looking nice. Is the top also ply & what thickness? - curious how you got the camber in it.

BigS - that PH is slick. Are you going to rig up side curtains (& even a back one)? Would be a nice cocoon in the spring/fall if so.

[KenB]

lookin' good willy...

you guys who used wood,why ? just curious,composites would allow you to save alot of weight,plus,composites last indefinatley...

Dunno about you guys but I am using wood because the composites are expensive, no one actually knows what composites will look like after 30 years of UV in a boat (haven't been around that long), and the plywood I removed from my 1969 20, especially that stuff that was resin impregnated, is fine. I have a closed cell foam dog house someone gave me, but I am really not happy about compression, compared to ply... let me put it this way... I think I could get a c-clamp to crush the closed cell stuff, even with 2 layers of 1708 on both sides. not sure the same thing happens with 3/4" A/C.

I am using 1/2 lowes arauco instead of balsa for all my recoring efforts or hatches, top caps.

I think epoxy impregnated ply will last longer then the composite stuff. My 2 cents. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Put some epoxy or 5200 in all screw holes and thing should be golden.

Also, I am planning to use a glue gun to stick things together and then fillet and tape seams. Based on technique from ed anderson in San Diego. He uses poly on ply and has really good results. Swears by the glue gun technique.

LASTLY, the extra weight justifies a suzi 300?

[Fr. Frank]

...LASTLY, the extra weight justifies a suzi 300?

At least that!!

[pelican]

not saying anything is "wrong" with wood,as a core-but-wood needs to be kept dry-water,especially fresh water is the enemy-dry rotting/delamination...
working outside-how do you keep everything dry ?

i read someone recomend polyester based resin-not the best choice for working with glass and wood-polyester resins only provide a surface bond,also,the polyester resins are not waterproof.

i'm just surprised to see no one using divinycell-it's very easy to work with...i work with these products every day-i've replaced enough rotted transoms,decks,stringers,bulkheads-hard tops with a balsa core,to see the damage water intrusion can cause...

the pilot house i build,will be from composite material-bagged-i've worked with enough composites,at my shop,to be a firm believer in the technology...

[fat2nawilly]

thanks for the compliments guys. It probaly only added a couple hundred extra pounds. probaly real close to the same weight of the huge t-top that we took of of it. The 3 sides are 3/4'' and the top is 1/2'' with 3/4'' screwed to the under side of the over hang. so the middle is still 1/2'' and only the bottom outer edges got thicker.The back edges I used 1 1/2'' pvc pipe and cut a 5/8'' slot out of it and sliped it over the ply and screwed it in. The reason we didnt go with composites is the cost. as long if you have the whole thing glassed and sealed up I dont see it rotten anytime soon.think of how long some of the transoms and floors lasted.

[KenB]

not saying anything is "wrong" with wood,as a core-but-wood needs to be kept dry-water,especially fresh water is the enemy-dry rotting/delamination...
working outside-how do you keep everything dry ?

i read someone recomend polyester based resin-not the best choice for working with glass and wood-polyester resins only provide a surface bond,also,the polyester resins are not waterproof.

i'm just surprised to see no one using divinycell-it's very easy to work with...i work with these products every day-i've replaced enough rotted transoms,decks,stringers,bulkheads-hard tops with a balsa core,to see the damage water intrusion can cause...

the pilot house i build,will be from composite material-bagged-i've worked with enough composites,at my shop,to be a firm believer in the technology...

I have about 15 years of experience with wooden skiffs that suggests you are wrong about "need to keep ply dry"... you just need to keep it painted or oiled. I think balsa and ply are more different than ply versus any of the fancy expensive cores. Sadly, lowes does not carry divinycell, but as soon as they do I will pick some up and see how it goes! I pay about $30 for a sheet of arauco. I do have to pick through the pile to find good sheets with no voids, but how much does a 4x8 of your stuff go for?

I had heard the same thing about poly on wood, but Ed Anderson swears by it and has done some great boats with it. He says the key is to make sure you rough up the surface of the ply (36 grit) and then make sure a barrier coat (i.e. any decent epoxy or LPU paint) goes on over. My understanding is that the load baring is done by the glass... the ply or whatever you use for core just needs to not compress. Lots of great coldmolded boats out there... like that 40 freeman on hull truth. Yes I know epoxy not poly.

I guess my other thing about the fancy core materials... epoxy is only made by like 3 different chemical companies. All the different brands you see (and different prices) come from some tweaking after the fact, but for the most part, the price difference is the result of different business models not different products. I would rather pay $43/gallon and have to deal with the epoxy products website than pay $80/gallon for west systems to build special epoxy product stands in every west marine across the country. My point is... I wonder how much hype is behind this new stuff.

Outside - combination of tarps, sheds, and basement.

[pelican]

west marine ? what does west marine have to do with "west system epoxy" ? are you under the assumption,west marine,IS west systems epoxy ? if that's the case,you need to look a little further into that...
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/

plywood most definatley needs to be kept dry-allow a plywood core to get wet-end result is dry rotting and delamination-painting the wood-tell me,what does that do ? keeps water off the wood,right ? plywood,it usually rots and wicks water via the end grain,the reason the end grain needs to be sealed-and sealed properly,with an epoxy based product...fresh water,as in rain water,is the worst...

"roughing up" wood before glassing does nothing to increase the absorbtion rate of a polyester based resin,polyester resin used on a wood surface,it provides a surface bond-the reason the fiberglass skin can easily be removed from the wooden core-when recoring hatches,decks,transoms,etc-try the same thing with an expoy resin as the lamination mix-the results will be much different..."roughing up" a surface is needed,it gives the products something to "bite" to...ever try painting a slick smooth surface ? polyester based resins will cure much quicker,than epoxy based products-which usually require a full 8hrs cure time-time to "soak" into a pourous surface,such as wood.

"your stuff",i use it,i do not manufacture it...price ? well,one transom core-a high density foam composite-for a 29 sea swirl striper-michigan composites mfg'd the core,it cost $130,plus shipping-i ordered the core,cut to fit...$130 for a transom core,not bad...that was a new 290 with the alaska package ,twin 250 yamaha's,the boat ran down a dredge pipe,at a very high rate of speed-fast enough to have the stbd engine shear the tilt piston,allowing the engine to fly upwards,and crush the cowling...the transom core was broken through-the drain tubes in the transom were popped out-clearly one hell of a hit,the engines stayed on the boat...i had one job-transom core,and stringers,on a boat with a 9'4" beam,the lumber bill-2 sheets of 5'x10' 3/4" and a single sheet of 1/2" 5'x10,cost almost $600-all marine grade...standard sheets are 4'x8'...i don't think lowes sells marine grade ply...
i'm not saying there's anything wrong with wood,i've used alot of wood,no problems.i'm just surprised to see no one using composites...