Honda or Ficht?

[ocuyler]

OK...

I've decided to defer the "pocket rocket" aquisition in favor of finishing the 23CC and putting the bucks into a new motor instead of re-installing a 1989 Yamaha 200 with 850 salt water hours (although she runs great).

It's down to Evinrude Ficht DI 225 or Honda 225 installed with a gauge package. Pricing is only slightly higher on the Honda. I love Honda products, but between a higher price, not much better MPG and higher maintainence costs, I believe the Ficht is a better choice. In our area, Yamaha dealers are hard to find, or I'd be looking there too.

The 225 Ficht will hypotheticaly push the 23CC to around 48 MPH at 3 MPG give or take. I'm calculating this with 3000 pound hull, 540 pound motor, 60 gal. fuel/half tank (500 pounds), 2 persons (500 pounds), 200 pounds of gear and 100 pounds batteries & oil. That's 4840, say 5000 pounds.

I'll place an order this week. Any comments?

[John R]

I would try to get someone that owns the 4 stroke's opinion of that motor on a 23. I thought I read somewhere that the Honda 225 was a dog on a 23 SC but there was also a question of how well the motor was rigged. Beyond that I still think I would personally consider a 4 stroke if I had the choice. With the Ficht likely after that going 2 stroke.

I know a local top charter guy / comm fisherman that runs a Yami 225 4 Stroke on his 21 Contender. We haven't talked much about the engine but he's had nothing but praise for it and he puts this boat in some tough waters and a lot of hours (I haven't even been on the boat yet [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] although Trayder has ).

As for the 225 Ficht - Hooper seems to be real happy with his. Don't know if 48MPH is a little optimistic [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

How much do you want for the old 200 ? Give you some cash & trade? Like free business website hosting for a couple years? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Trayder]

A very good friend of mine as a new 23 Seacraft with the 225 Honda and he has nothing but good things to say about the boat/engine combo.

I would not buy the Ficht 225 unless it is after Bomardier sells the division and you are happy with the new owner?

Do you have a Suzuki dealer near you? The new Suzuki 200,225,and 250 should blow the doors off the current V6 four strokes and should be priced lower. I do not know its availability, I think July or August?

[John R]

OK - Maybe I'll be getting a Suzuki next year [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ...

Trayder - know any fuel / speed stats on that Honda powered Unclassic Seacraft?

[Ed]

Otto-

I agree with Trayder.....definitely pass on the FICHT. The local Mako dealer down the street dropped Evinrude/Johnson during the whole OMC debacle and picked up HONDA and has been selling the shit out of the Honda 130s & 225's. Everybody and the mother is buying them and so far, very few problems. The mechanics are friends with my boss and have nothing but but good stuff to say about the Hondas (and the Yamaha OX-66 2-stroke motors---just to be fair) Plus, HONDA is standing behind their products....of the few motors that have had issues...HOnda replaced powerhead or lower unit and extended warranty for 10 years. Honda also asked the dealer if he had any customers with over 500 hours on their motors because they (HONDA) wanted to take them apart, inspect and reengineer them. The guy got brand new twin 130's....not a bad deal!!

Lastly, most of the coast guard boats in teh area have switched to Hondas. The rigid inflatable center consoles are running twin 130's and the new SAFE rigid inflatables with aluminum pilot house are running twin 225's.

Just some more info to help you make your decision. The only thing I would seriously look into is the added weight on the transom. Find out what your existing motor weighs and what the new Honda 225 weighs. If it is a big difference, it may throw off the self bailing characteristics of teh deck and the hull'd ride. 4 strokes are great....but your 1987 boat and my 1991 boat weren't exactly designed for that extra weight. Even if your transom is new and strong as the rock of gibraltar and can handle the extra weight.....balancing the boat is the key issue. (Several off the new boat manufacturers are moving some of the boats weight forward to compensate for the heavier horsepower on the transom)

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

[ocuyler]

I just reviewed the POWERBOAT REPORTS article in their Jan. 2003 issue. The test 23 had a Honda 225. They recorded 31.2 MPH @ 4000 RPM for 3.4 MPG and 85 db.

Interestingly, a 4500 RPM cruise yeilds a SLOWER 30.35 MPH and 2.5 MPG. What's up with that?

Top speed at WOT was 38.4 at 5600 RPM w/ 91.5 db.

I find the top speed quite low and we KNOW the hole shot is going to suffer compared to a DI, which should also give a substancially higher top end.

Trayder, I spoke at length with my local dealer, who sells both Ficht and Honda. He felt extemely confident that no matter who buys Bombardier, they will continue the push with the E-tec, etc. Further, he heard that the Bombar.dier family want a majority interest. I think that says something. As I've known this dealer/owner for 30 years, I have every confidence in a 5 to 10 year outlook for my 23 with a Ficht.

The only personal leaning I could get out of him was that the Honda was very quiet and smooth at idle, which is perfect for 2-3 MPH trolling on Lake Ontario. I don't do that.

I'll have pricing for both (installed) and will post the results. As I tell the kids, "we'll see"...

[ June 04, 2003, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: Otto Cuyler ]

[Finster]

Otto, down here Honda's don't have a great rep. I know a few people that have had nothing but problems, and their very heavy too boot. I agree with Trayder on the Suzuki idea and the savings should put you back in the ball game for the 4 boat theory. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Trayder]

JohnR- That is my frioends boat in Power Boat Reprts, the guys who run the boat from Greenwich CT to Edgartown so I guess what Otto published are the #'s?

[Trayder]

Otto- Being comfortable with your dealer is the most important factor in my opinion. I may disagree with his thoughts on the new owners as there is no telling at this point but he will be the one working on it if he is local and reasonable and you like him that is 80% of the battle right there.

[Mark]

It seems that on even numbered years I read that Evinrude/Johnson has their problems figured out. On odd numbered years the problems with financing/backing resurface again.

What Trayder said about being comfortable with your dealer is correct. However, wouldn't it be great to not only be confident in your dealer but also in the manufacturer he is representing?

I don't have a solution to this situation but personally would be a bit shy of a company with repetitive backer problems that are significant enough to make it widely into the press every other year.