To Repower or Not To Repower? That is The Question.

[ChrisG]

I have a 1976 Sceptre 23 that was neglected before I purchased it in May '03. The boat has a 1986 Commander 351ci/260hp I/O connected to the original Mercury outdrive. I just ran aground and had to replace the torque coupling. In the process I also replaced the seals and the lower unit on the outdrive and rebuilt the stringers where the engine mounts. As it sits I have about $10K in a boat with no electronics (not even a depth finder), a windlass that works sporadically, no top, a faulty trim/tilt motor and an engine that takes 10-minutes to start.
The question is should I try to restore the boat and repower or should I sell now and cut my losses? If I invest another $25K in repower and restoration will the boat be worth $35K when I'm done? If I repower, the cheapest route would be to drop in a new Mercury 350 MAG MPI Horizon @ 300hp coupled to a Bravo I or II outdrive. The other possibilities would be a Yanmar 6LPA-STZP @ 310hp I/O set up or a Suzuki DF 250hp on a bracket. I think the Suzuki will be the most expensive option considering the need to rebuild the transom and purchase a bracket on top of the cost of the engine. Considering all this, which engine package would bring the best performance to the boat and which would bring the best value?
It doesn't make much sense to me to invest much more into the boat than it will be worth when I'm done.
Any direction or advice anyone could give me would be most appreciated.
BTW: In a recent review of the Hunt Surfhunter 29, the auther mentioned three hulls he thought have been the most sea worthy on the water. Bertram 31 and the Original Seacraft Sceptre 23' were the first two on his list. Makes me feel great about the hull.

[ScottM]

Chris,
Sorry to hear about your engine troubles. Regarding resale value, you'll never get back what you put into the boat, even if you did a keel-up restoration. You could probably get 2/3 of your total cash outlay. With the power options, unless you run a few hundred hours a season and travel long distances, I'd go with the Horizon. Although the Yanmar would make a nice package, it's overkill unless you log a lot of time on the water. I agree, the Suzuki and bracket would run you more than the Horizon/Bravo package, no question.

They are such great boats, I'd do anything I could to keep it. You're already $10K into it, why not go a bit further? It's only money right? [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Surfhunters are nice boats. Ray Hunt could sure design a pretty hull.

[FELLOW-SHIP]

Ha Chris
Sorry to hear about your boat and the repair work. As to what to do now well that’s a personal judgment call. Unfortunately all used boats are a depreciating item no matter what boat you have. I think the real question is are you happy with your current boat size and style, if not then it is time to sell and buy what you really want, but if you like your boat and want to keep it then fix her up. For me I would keep on fixing her up until I couldn’t fish any longer only then would I sell her and then only to a good home.
FellowShip [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[abl1111]

I am redoing a 1975 Tsunami ( same as Sceptre ). It's a hell of a lot of work and $ and I am re-doing it myself ( w/ a friend ). The exact motor and drive you're talking about is $11.5-12K uninstalled. Then all new gauges, prop, harness, and misc stuff.

First as mentioned previously, decide if you love the boat. It is a great hull w/ a lot of pedigree. There will always be a market for it. And you know the deal; you never make $ on a boat. If you 'lose' $1-2K a year in value - you have to look at it as " that's a freaking cheap vacation for a summer season, etc."! If you will keep her for 5-8 more years and be happy - then it seems like it is worth it, right ?

If you're sure the transom is in good shape, and the floor is solid - go w/ an i/o and be done w/ it. You can even rebuild what you have or find a rebuild motor and drive- if the $$ is a big concern.

For me, it's about enjoying boating and having a boat that when you look at it, makes you smile inside. Life is short. As I get older, I realize I might not boat as much as I can now, while I'm young and able. Screw the economics of it. The economics never make sense ! Decide what you want out of boating first and then figure out 'how' you will afford it, not 'if' !

Ok, Grasshopper ?

[Hooper]

Hi ChrisG-

Just a thought here...

I am an unabashed fan of the Evinrude Ficht 225hp that I put on at the end of the 2002 season. I put 230+/- hours on it this season without so much as a hint of problems. I dream of this boat with a HermCo bracket to give it positive floatation in the aft. It was priced right, $12,100 from Ship Shops in South Yarmouth, Mass. It sips fuel for a big outboard (I fish a full day south of Nantucket from Bass River on Cape Cod and burn about 35 gallons plus oil), it is fast (I get a cruise of 23kts at 4,000 rpms and 27kts at 4500 rpm's) and it is relatively quite at cruise and very quiet at a troll.

Just food for thought... The price was right for me, and throw in a bracket with transom closure kit from HermCo and I bet you're well under 20K.

And an interesting note about Surf Hunter Boats. In the book titled, Lobster Boats by Virginia L. Thorndike (Downeast Books, Camden Maine) there is a few words about this design... According to an this book, Jarvis Newman, a well know downeast lobster boat designer in his own right, designed the 25' Surf Hunter for Ray Hunt.

Newman's father-in-law approached him about getting into the fiberglass powerboat design business. Jarvis thought it sounded like a good idea. "...he made two molds, one for a twenty-five foot Ray Hunt deep V called the Surf Hunter. Jarvis only built a few of these boats, but the design was a good one and is still being produced in southern New England."

Isn't that interesting? This is a great read by the way, one that the members of this board would certainly enjoy.

The other mold was a 36' downeast lobster design that is now known simply as the Newman 36, one of the best riding and most seaworthy designs available. There are some people in this world who have a talent or skill and in Maine, they build great boats!

At 32, I'm still trying to figure out what mine is.... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

-Merry Christmas, Hooper

[ScottM]

Hoop,
That book sounds pretty interesting. I've always liked the downeast hulls, I think I'll take a look around for that book. Over on THT I saw a post about the downeast boat show in Portland. Would you be interested in going when it comes around again?

[FELLOW-SHIP]

HA ABI111
YOU COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER. GIVE THAT MAN A BEER.

For me, it's about enjoying boating and having a boat that when you look at it, makes you smile inside. Life is short. As I get older, I realize I might not boat as much as I can now, while I'm young and able. Screw the economics of it. The economics never make sense ! Decide what you want out of boating first and then figure out 'how' you will afford it, not 'if' !

FELLOWSHIP [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[joey]

I must tell you that you have a better shot of getting your money back on SeaCraft than any other,except maybe a Merritt or Rybovich if you can afford one.I made a big mistake this past summer I had a 98 21,that was perfect,that I bought new in January 98 for 29,000 and sold it this summer for 24,500.I can't complain about that,however I can't replace it for that either.I have a beautiful Charlie Morgan with all the bells and whistles and full tower that is now for sale because it has been blowing here in key west all winter and I can't leave the dock with it.But I could with my old SeaCraft!

[Briguy]

ChrisG,

Let me give you a little advice that may be way off from the other guys. I believe in the "less is more" theory.

First of all, what do you need a 12k 350 mag horizon for? You will never get the resale out of it and I'm guessing you average less than 150 hours per season, probably more like 50 hours running if you look at the last 5 years. My guess is that since the 351 commander hooked up to the Merc Drive, so would a 350 chevy. One of my local mechanics does 350/270hp carb crate motors all the time. A complete long block installed comes in at around 4500.00=-. Since the old drive works well, keep it till it blows up. As for the windless, have a mechanic rewire it, you most likely have corrosion on your switches, too. If not, scrap it and go back to the old heeve ho with the anchor. A nice aluminum bimini top with sunbrella canvas costs about $300.00 here in Florida and you and a buddy can install it in under an hour. As for a fishfinder, a Garmin GPS/Fishfinder combo unit will cost about a grand, cheeper yet a standard horizon gps/fishfinder combo retails for 399.00 [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] No trim and tilt is a problem and when your mechanic installs the motor, he can fix that for a few hundred more. So....lets add it up

Motor+labor+tnt= 4850.00
Rewire windlass 150.00
Sunbrella top 300.00
Standard GPS/FF 500.00 installed

Total $5800.00

You be the judge.

[cc]

I agree with the guys above regarding keep it if you like it, replace it if you don't. Some things you do because it brings you joy, not because it makes economic sense. I repowered my 1982 searay walkaround 24'7" last winter with a new merc 250 hp, bravo 1, with full fresh water cooling, including the manifolds for $14,000. Dealer here did the install including new steering, wiring harness and controls. I did new wiring, instrument panel, fuel tank, upholstry, myself. Put 70 hours on it this summer and am glad I repowered new vs. rebuilding the old but servicable 260 hp IO. It ran good, but problems were driving me crazy. I elected to go with the carbureted 5.7, 250 hp rather than the fuel injected versions that give more power for two reasons 1) carbs are simple and have been around about 100 years. I have always been able to get home 2) The injected engines have sensors that monitor all kinds of things to optimize and give you the power. These sensors measure in milliamps and millivolts. Corrosion at a connection or terminal can shut the engine down and you will tear your hair and wallet out troubleshooting. There is no such thing as jerry rigging to get home on these electronic marvels. I have seen this first hand on boats 3+ years old. I live close to you, and also boat on the bay, and know what the salt air can do. Just my two cents worth.