10 Percent Ethanol

[BillPutney]

you nailed it.I have had my lawn mower repaired twice and each time it has acted up just as all of you have described . power starts to be reduced until finally it is puffing smoke and skipping.Twin cyl. 22 hp briggs .It eventually bent an exhaust valve in both instances an it is doing it again , the last time the repairman said he thoyught it needed a new carb.

[fdheld34]

Related question to this link....
if my boat sits in driveway with a full tank of fuel and I run it on the hose once a week for about 10 minutes at a time...should I use a fuel stabilizer etc. in the fuel..or is this mainly for people up north that winterize boats for long periods of time and do not have a chance to start motor?? I am able to take out boat approx 1 time every two months!

[ScottM]

From what I'm told, those of us still pre-mixing oil have no problems. It's all oil-injected motors that have the issue. Add fuel injection and things get worse.

I went all season with a smoky, carb'd pre-mix Evinrude that didn't hiccup once even after sitting at the slip for 3-4 weeks.

[Blue197320]

YAY PRE-MIX!!!!! i love my old motor. it just sat for 2 months and besides the overheating had no fuel issues.

[Michael Vezzosi]

This is absolutely freaking ridiculous! Fiberglass tank replaced on my 15 Whaler with [censored] in my fuel injectors! 10 micron Racor seperator not enough! Another 15 being rebuilt now. Custom aluminum fuel tank again! Can't even imagine whats in my 79 SeaCraft, but 70 gallons. Pumped out three years ago, by me, and found no problems. I don't rebuild my own carbs, and cost is out of control! Every kind of additive known to man. This is absolutely NUTS! Whats it going to take? News says that ethanol production is more costly than barrels of foreign oil, AND electric cars! I can't even keep my freakin' Stihl running! COME ON!!!

Sorry for the RANT but replacing fuel cells, custom built with todays prices on metal, additives up the arse, and outboard warranties that don't want to hear CRAP? What are we supposed to do? I'm sorry...maybe I have too many gas powered toys and tools. Just HAD to let it go...Part II.

[Bushwacker]

Fred - I would always use a fuel stabilizer, even if you weren't running ethenol. The oxygenated fuels that were developed a few years ago to reduce emissions seem to break down pretty quickly otherwise, even if they don't have alcohol in them. The alcohol just makes it worse by adding the phase separation problem, disolving any crud in the tank and attacking any rubber or plastic parts that aren't designed for it. The E-Tec's are supposed to be ok with up to 10% alcohol, and so far I've had zero problems. I did pull the tank and clean it real good when I repowered, and I've tried to avoid ethanol as much as possible, but looks like those days are over! Will switch to Startron from Stabil when I start buying E10. One factor that helps the DI engines is that the fuel system (except for the fuel in the tank) is sealed, so fuel is not exposed to oxygen, which should help it last a little longer.

[FELLOW-SHIP]

Just got back from Boaters World and picked up a bottle of Startron and a Racor Gas/H2o separator filter. I hope looking and seeing what is going into my motor will help me keep up with the potential problems. At lease I will feel better at the gas station when I fill up in the future.

I am thinking of keeping my old filter with the canister in the bilge and installing the Racor on the transom where I can see it and deal with it easy.

That would be a total of 3 filters. One in the bilge with regular filter in it, then the Racor on the transom and then there is the filter in my Yahama engine. I also have a Standard brand fuel scan meter hooked up on this fuel line as well which gives me readings like GPM, total gallons per trip. I almost forgot the fuel bulb which I squeezed once in 7 years.

Could this be a problem getting my fuel to the motor with all this extra stuff????


FellowShip

Just for the Grins

[FELLOW-SHIP]

I hope this doesn’t happen to me.


http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=825129




FellowShip

Just for the Grins

[Cheg]

First let me introduce myself. Bought a 1976 cc 23’ about two years ago and I’m about half done with a total rebuild. I don’t pretend to be very knowledgeable about the rebuild process but I’m learning with the help of the search feature in this web site. If I was twenty years younger the boat would be done by now.
With the ten percent ethanol situation I do have firsthand knowledge and, it’s not pretty. When the changeover occurred up here in New England a couple of years ago anyone who had a small amount of water on the bottom of their tank, below the pickups, found that water being absorbed into the ethanol portion of their gas. If there is enough water, then you have phase separation. Combine that with the cleaning properties of alcohol and it made for a nasty mix on the bottom of the tank. Keep in mind that this new gas can absorb .5% water (about two tablespoons) per gallon before you have this phase separation. When it does separate, it essentially drops out, all at once, in a short period of time. If you buy gas from a station that has water at bottom of their tanks, then it will take even less water in your tank, to cause this phase separation. Because it happens so quickly and its ten percent of the fuel you have in your tank it gets picked up and quickly overcomes any water separation properties of your fuel filters. Any soluble crap in your tank, passes through even the best filter, and now sits in all the low points of your fuel system. In my case,when winterizing, the motor stalled, and didn’t restart and run well until the system was flushed out using the bulb with a remote tank with the injectors pulled. . The motor was then winterized using fresh gas with Stabil and Startron. What I didn’t know was, this nasty mix was still in the lowest points of the fuel system and over the winter months the soluble elements within this mix precipitated out into black granules that looked like fine coffee grounds. Needless to say, the whole fuel system had to be dismantled and cleaned, but not before getting stranded on the lake, replacing all the injectors, having them get clogged and stuck on the lake again. Very costly to say the least. Remove the water before adding ethanol fuel, MDR EZorb will do this and also eliminate phase separation if you can’t pump it out, but you have to agitate the tank for it to work. A ride on a trailer would work. They recommend pumping air bubbles into your tank to mix it. Not practical if you ask me. Pump it out if you can. The gas part of the phase separation I mixed with high octane gas and used in an old suburban without a problem (about 25 gals.). I wasn’t confident enough to put it in my wife's car. If you find yourself removing water alcohol mix from your fuel filter it means there is a lot more sloshing around under the pickup in your tank. It also means the fuel left is a lot lower octane. There is also talk of the mbte gas and new gas having a reaction that forms a gel like substance that clogs injectors as well. I can’t comment on that. I winterize now with stabil and a racing fuel that has no ethanol. There is a debate out there now on whether to keep the tank full or empty it out during a long layup. I would keep the tanks empty in the winter and when I started up in the Spring, use something like EZorb when filling up and use Startron religiously all summer if I was still using the main tank. I now use remote tanks and keep the gas very fresh. I’m running a Merc 115 on a 17’ boat and it’s all I need. I did pull the 17 year old aluminum tank last Winter. The inside was as clean and shiny as the day it was made thanks to the new gas. The Seacraft has new aluminum tanks and will be treated this way over the winter unless I learn something new between now and then. If you southerners are just starting to see this stuff take it serious. Even with a fuel stabilizer this new gas doesn’t hold up very well over long layups (2-3 months). I do envy your weather. As you can tell I have way too much time on my hands, seasonal business and, it’s too cold to work on the boat.