20 or 23 that is the question

[bigeasy1]

As usual,lots of good advice here.
I'll add my two cents for what it's worth.With the costs being somewhat close to restore either,then I'd go with the 23.
If your intention is to save some money by doing a restoration,I think you may find that not to be the case.If you spend time watching the for sale ads on this site and on the net,you'll see that it's not uncommon to find some very nice Seacraft restorations for some very reasonable prices,and will be less than what it would cost to do it yourself.

I was in your position several years ago.I bought a 23' Tsunami(sceptre)that was sitting in a field for 10 years.
I knew it needed a lot of work,and figured it would cost me around 8-10 grand to restore.Well,when I was through with the resto three years later,I was into it for closer to 15-18 thousand.
And,I work for a friend in the glass,resin and marine supply business,so I saved a lot of money there,and got a lot of free technical advice,along with much help on laying up glass.
I did all kinds of horse trading for a lot of the equipment,and did every drop of work myself(with the advice from the folks on this site),and it still cost way more than I projected.
Now for me this was ok,because I didn't have the ready cash to do it all at once,and I had another boat to use in the meantime.
So, I would save up and buy materials when I had the money.The expensive items like the electronics,radar arch,kicker motor,canvas work brought the total up very fast.In the end,I'm still very happy,and proud of the job,and have basically a new boat at a fraction of what a real new one would cost.

I wasn't intending on making this about my project,but just maybe something that would give you an idea of a similar situation to yours and what to expect when attemting any kind of major restore.

If you have the financial resources,then I think buying one already restored would be a better choice.It would be less money,and a whole, whole, whole, whole, less work.I never want to wear a Tyvek suit again.
If on the other hand,you like doing nasty,dirty,itchy,sweaty,back breaking work,and scouting for bargins on supplies,that leads to a beautiful finished project then go for it.

Good luck with whatever you decide,post some pictures when you get the new project.

[DonV]

There ya go!

Just one point, from experience, if you decide to restore a 23'er. Whatever you think it will cost add 50%....minimum. As most of the other folks said get a hull in as good of shape as possible, then spend money on new power and enjoy your time on the water versus the working end of a sander.

[Bigshrimpin]

There are tons of great boats in the 20K range with newer power. Talk to a credit union if you want to preserve your cash. Rates are so low it's like free money. I'd rather have a fixed $300/month payment for 5 years and be fishing than an unknown variable wallet hemorrhage and commitment to do 2 full years hard labor grinding fiberglass.


I am saying this right before I pickup another large project boat but I have a 27 x 50 shop, a good working 23 center console, nearly all the materials (including rolls of 1708, a precut drop in marine ply transom core, epoxy primer, awlgrip, two 200hp motors, hydraulic steering, trim tabs, fuel tank) + parts to assemble it the new hull. See what kind of excuses . . . I come up with to try to convince myself this project is a good idea That's the sickness. I'm still budgeting 5 grand for a drum (55 gallons) of resin, rubber gloves, sandpaper, brushes, acetone, misc parts to slap it all together. When you break out the costs of each of those repairs listed above and factor in your TIME at $7.50/hr (2nd job @ a tackle shop pay) . . . You can't make an argument for saving money by buying a project hull even if you get it for free.

[davidjor]

Bigeasy, I'm with you on this one. I'll pay for things as I go. In stages, I'm looking to do this just to be like allot of guys on here, just to say you did it. It's more of a sense of accomplishment. I definitely agree it is cheaper and allot less hassle to just buy one. I just don't want debt. Takes allot of the fun out of fishing when there's payments :-)

Thanks guys for all the input

[Billpotter]

I echo all of the sentiments mentioned; I'm in the middle of my "last super custom" project with a 23 for my family that I am setting up to go for 40 years (pass on to my boys). With all of my inside experience, sources, accounts, exposure to super cool ideas, and super custom open checkbook projects that I planed and executed when I had my full service business- it is still a challenge:

I started with a day of team work disassembly, a "project pallet with 4k plus of resin, bedding compound, coosa, 1708, mat, etc, etc, etc. and it's been full bore one or two days a week for months. If you want to take the opportunity to built the exact boat that you want, and honestly plan to keep it for a good while (10+years), and have a boat handy rating of 6 or above (on a scale of 1-10), have at it: if you can put the time in, it'll be one of the most rewarding things you'll ever do-- Just remember;I warned you!

[Bigshrimpin]

Originally Posted by davidjor

Bigeasy, I'm with you on this one. I'll pay for things as I go. In stages, I'm looking to do this just to be like allot of guys on here, just to say you did it. It's more of a sense of accomplishment. I definitely agree it is cheaper and allot less hassle to just buy one. I just don't want debt. Takes allot of the fun out of fishing when there's payments :-)

Thanks guys for all the input

Congrats on enrolling in project boat 101 adult arts and crafts That will be $4000 up front and every dollar in your wallet each month for the next 2 years. Seriously it's a lot of fun and there's no better feeling than when you splash the boat for the first time.

[davidjor]

can someone give me a breakdown of major expenses for what they spent on their 20 and 23 projects.

Hull ?
Materials ?
Engine ?
Paint ?
etc ?

thanks again guys for your help

[Caymanboy]

You guys are making this way to complicated.
Simple answer is-------, you need BOTH!
Having had my 20' for some years, I have decided that I am getting a bit long in the tooth to be zipping to the Bahama's for lunch in her, so I am building a 25' something. But, I love that 20' so much I am building one of them also, my quick (I can get into any dock for lunch boat) around town.
Money wise? Heck it can run from 15-100+K, all depends on who does it, how they do it, what they use and what kind of equipment you put on it.

[Bigshrimpin]

Originally Posted by davidjor

can someone give me a breakdown of major expenses for what they spent on their 20 and 23 projects.

Hull?
Materials ?
Engine ?
Paint ?
etc ?

thanks again guys for your help

This can vary wildly depending on what you are starting with and the level of finish you want to achieve.

You mentioned the 23 needs a floor and transom . . . if it's that far gone you'll almost definitely need to replace the fuel tank, fuel tank supports, and recore the gunnel cap. Some folks have removed all the foam from the stringers too, but I personally think it's not necessary unless they are totally soaked (pretty rare)

fuel tank ($1000) including all the hoses.

fuel tank support ($ 600 - $1000+)
$130 pail of poly or $400 epoxy (4 -5 gallons of resin)
$100 core (1/2 marine ply)
$50 approx 5 yards of fabric
$250 in grinding discs, sawsall blades, acetone, paper towels, gloves, brushes,
cabosil, mixing cups, 5200, saw blades, rollers, roller handles, trays, plastic,
spreaders, mixing sticks, razor blades, chisels,
$100 for bilge paint

Battery support area is gonna be shot (another 2 to 3 gallons of resin, + core + fabric) or just cut them out.

Transom $1000 - $2500
Depends what you use for Core material (penske, coosa, marine ply)
approx 10 gallons of resin (poly or epoxy)

Floor $1000 - $3000
Entire floor not including front deck? + hatches recored?

Gunnel Cap Recore $1000 (not including boat jewelry)


So approx 4-5K on the cheap for marine ply splatter finish (transom, floor with a new fuel tank and tank support)

and approx 7500K+ to make it look factory using composites (no wood + epoxy + vacuum bagging)


Then:

complete wiring job $1000 - $2000 (includes bilge pumps, wash down, switches, breakers, batteries)

Painting $1000 - $2000 for awlgrip or awlcraft 2000.

New Rubrail $400 - $1000

Boat jewelry Popup cleats and lights. $600 - $2000


Trailer?
Engine?
Rigging? Steering? Trim tabs?

This is a guesstimate based on my own experience.

[RUSTYNTABATHA]

if you get the 20 MA it falls between the 23 and 20SF... which was why i looked for mine.. and the cost to build number depends on whether you ask infront of the wife or not.. if the wife is pressent... I traded everything out with friends...LOL