Transom replacement???

[Ed]

Hi Don-

I know you have a ton of experience restoring boats and transoms and obviously you have a business that sells beautiful brackets which promote a "bolt on" application. I also can definitely see why adding a bracket distributes the load over a greater surface, especially on a new boat.

However, I still think that "blindly" recommending that one simply bolt on a bracket to an existing 10, 15, or 25 year old transom without doing anything else is unwise for the following reasons:


1) Liability and safety- many people who visit this site don't have a ton of experience (or are continually learning, like myself) with this stuff and I would hate to see someone loose their hard earned money (or their life)because of a bracket/transom failure.

2) While many older transoms appear to be okay on initial inspection, often upon closer inspection they are in dire need of replacement due to water intrusion/rot, termite/worm damage, delamination from hull, etc. Overlooking these potential areas of concern and slapping a bracket in my mind constitutes a band-aid approach.

3) Finally, if you are going through the expense of adding a bracket to an older boat, in my opinion, you're better off spending the extra money/taking the extra time on rebuilding the transom so that you can start off with a clean slate.

Call me overly cautious.....but this is how I was taught to do it and I would just sleep better knowing that I spoke my mind.

-Ed-

[BigMike8o9]

Hi Ed, Maybe a bit hard on Don, we have decided that a good inspection of the transom is necessary before it could be left on. I think the fact that he makes or sells a product has nothing to do with recomending it as it is in his mind a good product. I think it is and may get one.
On some of the marlin sites I belong to I sometimes recomend my stuff because I thinks it may be the best for someone.
I know tapping on wood is the way many people test the transom but I know from many years of repaireing boats the best way would as i've done checked around the through holes like the engine bolts and scuppers and of course the drain plug.
Those being like new, I will drill small holes in the corners and along the top.
If still clean good holes I won't take out the whole transom just fill in the top and step scarf the piece in.
My method to conect the bracket to the hull more and the transon less should give me strenth I want.
I got a lot of good info from emails that are a real help. And some great on line stuff. Thanks guys, I'll photo log it as I go.
BigMike

[Ed]

Actually, I was not trying to be hard on, Don. He has my complete respect and is an asset to this community. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to judge "tone" on email/websites, etc. and often what is simply a matter a difference of opinion is often miscontrued as a personal attack.

What I was trying to do was give you the most information to make the best decision that was right for you while also making others aware of the pontential problems associated with old transoms.

Put it this way, if I ever add a bracket to Mako (or maybe even a pilothouse), Don would be the first person I called.

Ed

[warthog5]

or maybe even a pilothouse)

Speaking of which. Is there a new Pilothouse to fit the 8ft beam boat's?
I throught I'd read something about that in the past, but never asw any pix's or more imfo.

[hermco]

However, I still think that "blindly" recommending that one simply bolt on a bracket to an existing 10, 15, or 25 year old transom without doing anything else is unwise for the following reasons:

Ouch! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[oldbluesplayer]

this is sometimes the problem with Internet chat, two guys who have the same intentions, getting a little lost in the verbage - you're both on track, methinks.

BigMike - I was wondering if your boat is a OB, or IO, and if OB, do you have the single wide, or double wide motor cutout ?

Also I wanted to point out that there is alot of difference in brackets - for instance, my bro converted a 23 Sea Bird from IO, to bracketed OB - he used a single engine Armstrong bracket, which at the point it connects to the transom, has a fairly small footprint, not that much bigger than an OB's attach footprint. Conversely, a double motor bracket, and especially something like the Hermco/Potter bracket, has an even bigger footprint.

The bracket attach footprint is important - because that directly translates to spreading the load out over a greater area, which results in reducing the forces, and functionally strengthening, the transom.

In my brothers boat, it had an old OMC first generation oudrive, and a 350-V8. He pulled the motor, pulled the outdrive, and then plugged the original hole in the transom, with plywood and fiberglass. Then they went inside, and glassed in a big plate of 3/4" plywood, covering probably 2/3 of the transom area - much, much bigger than the plug put into the old outdrive hole. Then bolted up the armstrong bracket, thru the transom and support plate, adding a beefy pice of aluminum angle iron inside the transom - further spreading the load uniformly across the transom. He's been running this boat with no problem in the seas off MV for the last three years, since doing the conversion, and I can attest that it scoots nice with a single 235 on the back.

I'm not familiar with the bolt up pattern of the Hermco bracket, and in the early stage of this thread, BigMike mentioned something about possibly fabricating his own bracket - either way, I think remembering the key element of spreading the load out across the transom will be significant - and if it were me, I would be adding probably two, or maybe three knees, to further spread the load forward and down, into the hull/ stringers, as well - probably depending on whether I was going to hang a single, or twins, off the bracket.

and Mike - given what you said about nasty trailering conditions, I'd also keep in mind an idea about using a transom saver support rod, or two, for the trailering - though that might be a bit difficult to rig up with bracketed OB's.

just some stray thoughts.

Bill

[BigMike8o9]

Bill, Thanks for all your info, I wasn't trying to offend anybody but I wanted to say that I didn't think that Don was blindly recomending anything because we had talked about transom condition right off.
Back to road conditions...Baja sucks road wise. I've found it easier to tow off road then on in some places. Picture driveing over speed bumps or parking stop. Add to that dead cows around some of the curves and live ones plus throw in over aged over crowded buses on two wheels doing seventy MPH around those mountain top curves. While the people inside are cheering and holding livestock.
I was going to make a brace to hold the outboards up but I really believe in a belt and susspenders in cases like that.
Loading accross the transom is good but the strongest places on the transom are on the bottom and side as well as the stringers. Because I'm taking out the back of the deck it allows me to get the best access to the stringer wich to some extent are the most important components to the boat being strong, like a keel on a wooden boat.
If you look at the pictures on Hermco site, I believe that's the best way. The diference is that I will use the aluminum to save a few pound per side and as I said I will try to keep bolt compression to a minimum. That is that the wood could compress and let the bracket work on the transom.
If I do replace the transom I will cut it completely out, Not just recore it. That's my plan anyhow. I haven't found any rot so far.

[cSickNick]

You know, I am still thinking about putting a bracket on my 20' Seafari some day. (I love the Potter Blue bracketed Seafari hull on Hermco's web site!)
I know Ed had "good" intentions on posting his opinion on valid points and he even apologized to clear up the "tone".

So why does Hermco re-quote with Ouch? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I can only hope that Hermco can reply(glad he is OK after Wilma!) to clear this up. It looks like we are all on the same page(as OldBluesPlayer mentioned). If money was not an issue, no debate, rebuild to full transom. Since most of us are on a budget, we consider other options and phased approaches.

If I go this route, I was planning on the phased approach. Bolt up the bracket and see how things work out and take it easy … near the end of a season. The rebuild transom to full over the winter and then resplash in the spring.

Did not mean to keep pissing on the fire ... sure I do, I clicked on the submit button! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[afernand]

Finster: do you (or any of the CSC members) know of "carbon fibers" to reinforce the transom on the inside? Thanks for your info, aaf

[warthog5]

aaf Do you mean where to buy it? Or has anyone used it?

http://www.fibreglast.com/showproduc...0Tapes-15.html