Noob questions

[jorgeinmiami]

I could take a look at it tommorow if you have interest.

Call the guy see if it's kinda of what you might want.

There were a lot of them on craigs list not to long ago and a member here sold his after he got it really nice and I think it was for sale again. It.s featured in the Seacraft Gallery under Botapeje's 20 Seafari and it was at my house for a while and it was nice

PM me if you want

[Max_Florida]

I really appreciate the offer, but I don't think I'm going to be ready to buy a boat until the fall. Right now I don't have anywhere to work on it, nor do I have the cash to afford to fix it up.

I'm just trying to research and learn at this point, so when the time comes I can make a decent decision.

In regards to the Seafari, from what I understand it is a fairly rare boat, and a lot of the ones I've seen are I/Os. They did come with OBs but not until the later years right?

How much would it cost to convert an I/O to an OB?

Is this feasible on my budget or should I just try to find an OB?

How much would a new bracket for an OB set up cost?

What is the average cost for redoing a transom on its own?

I've been reading through the threads here, and there is a HUGE wealth of knowledge but I haven't came across many posts that list cost. Just trying to get an idea.

I really appreciate all of your guys input!

[McGillicuddy]

People don't often post expenses because they've heard - or already know - how costly divorce can be

Regarding the Seafari, there were plenty of early outboards made. Bushwacker's and mine were both '72s... I think the mix was pretty even except in '71 and '72, see chart:
http://classicseacraft.com/brochures...production.pdf

If you want an OB get an OB. You can find a decent old merc or evinrude 115 for around a grand all day long in FL.
I think you could easily find a decent running Seafari in the 3k range. If you did the transom yourself you could probably do it around $600 of materials.

If you found just a neglected hull you could likely get it for under a grand on an old trailer.

Quality flotation brackets ain't cheap, probably 2k or better; maybe as much as neglected running Seafari itself. If you go for a bracket make sure it is a flotation bracket as you'll be moving the center of gravity way back, and that will prove significant. For your target price I'd stick to older 2 stroke motors in the 115 hp range that will weigh in @ 290 to 330 lbs and hang them on the transom. That's kind of the target motor weight on the older 20s. That being said I would suggest you find one with a 25" transom or plan on raising it. I'd probably ditch the bracket idea unless I planned on repowering with a 400 lb + late model motor.

The 1970s 20' hulls are pretty weight sensitive because they have a narrow beam 7'6" and vertical thru hull scuppers that let water in if they have too much weight aft. Of course if you're diving you'll get wet feet anyway.

Good luck in your search. I personally prefer cuddy cabins for the camping element and shelter from the storm but ccs are great dive boats too.

As far as budget goes, if you have a target in mind... plan on doubling it before you're happy

[BigLew]

As far as budget goes, if you have a target in mind... plan on doubling it before you're happy.

Say Amen, Brother! At the lower end.

[Max_Florida]

If the Seafari is as bulletproof as it sounds(and I'm sure it is) I plan on keeping this boat for a long while and making it my baby. I don't doubt that I'll end up spending a lot more than the wife would like on it! But for the time being, my goal is just to get a reliable boat.

I am definitely starting to get a better grasp on what I should be looking for when it comes time to buy.

Now I need to start learning about outboard engines, hah!

I'm assuming that all of the older 2 strokes are fairly similar in design? I'm thinking about getting the repair manual for a johnson 115 and starting to get familiar with it. If I end up getting a different type of engine will that have been a waste of time?

[Fr. Frank]

If the Seafari is as bulletproof as it sounds(and I'm sure it is) I plan on keeping this boat for a long while and making it my baby. I don't doubt that I'll end up spending a lot more than the wife would like on it! But for the time being, my goal is just to get a reliable boat.

I am definitely starting to get a better grasp on what I should be looking for when it comes time to buy.

Now I need to start learning about outboard engines, hah!

I'm assuming that all of the older 2 strokes are fairly similar in design? I'm thinking about getting the repair manual for a johnson 115 and starting to get familiar with it. If I end up getting a different type of engine will that have been a waste of time?

I used to sell SeaCraft as the Dockmaster of a marina - and having been in and out and under and through SeaCraft
s is why I own one now 30 years later. This is my 2nd Seafari. For pulling with a regular passenger vehicle you can find no better boat than the Seafari.

I have, like Denny, taken a Seafari to the Bahamas many times, making the crossing in good weather and in terrifying weather. I have taken my Seafari as much as 115 miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico to the Florida Middle Grounds. Given that I'm a painstaking nut for planning my trips that far offshore, and always traveled with one or more boats in company, I still never worried about the boat being able to take the seas.

For years I have been in love with the Mercury/Mariner "Tower of Power" inline 6 cylinder engines, which were made in models ranging from 70 to 150 hp. They are, in fact, the engine the 20' SeaCraft was designed to run. I find them more dependable that the equivalent Johnson/Evinrude's. But the truth be told, many people have the opposite experience.

If you are 20 miles out, and have a problem, you want a motor you can feel some confidence in troubleshooting. Early inline Mercs used a distributor in their ignition system. Easy to troubleshoot, not so easy to fix. Later '78 through '88 inline 6 motors used an electronic ignition system, called ADI. It is very similar to the OMC "powerpack" ignition. Mercury called theirs a "switchbox". Mercury used 2 of these to ignite the 6 cylinder motors. OMC used only one on their V4 85-140 hp motors. Theoretically, you could get back on just 3 cylinders with the Merc.

In saltwater areas, OMC parts are more readily available than Mercury parts, and generally cost a bit less. You have to decide. If the choice were mine, I'd find a very good condition, later model inline Mercury. It will cost a bit more than the equivalent OMC, but I'm more knowledgeable and therefore more comfortable with the Mercury/Mariner. Both are great motors.

Getting to know the OMC V4 motor is not a waste of time. Most of the principles apply to any older motor; just the applications differ.

[Bushwacker]

If you have a wife, she'll like having the cabin and head on the Seafari, but she WON'T like being stranded with motor problems, so you're right to focus on reliability!

There are some differences on the older motors besides the ignition system Fr. Frank mentioned, which I agree is probably better on the Merc. The I-6 Merc is a mono block, i.e., the block and head are all one casting, which eliminates lots of bolts and the head gasket which can leak. However an outboard cylinder head is very simple and it's nice to be able to remove it to inspect condition of pistons and cylinders, although you can do that on the I-6 Merc with a borescope. The other difference I noticed is that the Merc's had higher performance powerheads (more hp/cu in.) and were built more like aircraft engines. They were typically a little lighter, using aluminum cowlings which were light but transmitted more noise than the F/G cowlings on the OMC's. Merc props are retained with a fancy tab washer to lock the nut; OMC's use a simple cotter pin like on boat trailer wheel bearing. Prop fit on the old OMC's was pretty sloppy, but the prop would slide aft every time you hit reverse, so less likely to become seized on the shaft. They used mostly fine thread bolts where the OMC's used course thread bolts. The fine thread bolts are stronger, but they also offer more surface area to seize up, which is a common problem on outboards due to galvanic action between the aluminum castings and steel bolts. (One of the main tools for working on old motors is the propane or acetylene wrench!) Not a problem if you stay on top of maintenance by greasing frequently removed stuff like water pump bolts, prop & driveshaft splines, etc., but when buying an older motor, was that done on it? Not trying to scare you off on buying an old motor, but just need to be sure you're getting into it with your eyes wide open!

Two friends of mine with Merc's paid big $ because they hadn't stayed on top of the maintenance. One had to destroy his prop to get it off because he hadn't greased the shaft often enough. The other took his to the dealer for a routine water pump change, expecting to pay a couple hundred $. It cost him over $800 (in 1975 $) because the driveshaft splines were seized inside the crankshaft! They cut a hole in the exhaust housing to cut the drive shaft and then had to completely tear down the whole motor to replace the crankshaft, driveshaft and exhaust housing! With the current $100/hr labor rates, these days a new motor would have probably been cheaper! When I bought my Seafari in 1975, the only real choice in motors were Mercury or OMC (Johnson & Evinrude, which are identical except for paint and decals), although Chrysler also made some very simple lightweight motors. Yamaha's came later and I have no experience with them, although I hear they're good motors too; imported though, so parts may be more expensive. At that time there were lots of 20-25 year old OMC's running around, and that's ALL you saw in the Bahamas, but you didn't see very many OLD Merc's. The Merc's had a reputation of being great fresh water motors, but they seemed to have more corrosion problems than the OMC's. Bought a new 115 Evinrude in 1975 and ran it till repowering/adding bracket in 2006. It still had good compression and was running good when I sold it, although it was getting hard to start when cold; I suspect the reed valves may have needed replacing. I picked the 115 instead of the more highly tuned 135 (with the same 100 cu. inch power head) because of better idle quality and long term durability. Although I had to replace numerous coils and one power pack and a starter, it never left me stranded once in 31 years and over 900 hours, so I had no complaints.

[Fr. Frank]

Denny has a good point about the reed valves. ALL old 2 strokes get weak reeds as they age, so in addition to what he said about becoming harder to start, they often begin to to have trouble idling, and to tend to stall when shifting into gear, if you don't then add throttle immediately. The cure for this is installing new reeds.

On an inline Merc, changing the reed block means a total tear-down of the motor, because they're mounted on the crankshaft. On an Johnson/Evinrude, they're mounted between the manifold and the block, and only require removing the intake manifold to replace.

To change the reeds on a 115 Johnson V4 from the 70's or 80's was only a 1 hour repair. On a Mercury inline, it was more like 3 hours at a minimum.

Most old inline Mercury owners simply increase the idle rpms from the original setting of 600 rpms, to 800-850 rpms at idle to counter the stalling issue without a complete tear-down to rebuild the reed block.

Still, I wouldn't hesitate to own either one after I had thoroughly inspected the motor and found it sound.

[Blue_Heron]

...I'm thinking about getting the repair manual for a johnson 115 and starting to get familiar with it. If I end up getting a different type of engine will that have been a waste of time?

I bought Outboard Engines: Maintenance, Troubleshooting and Repair a few years ago. You can get it used on Amazon for about ten bucks.

It doesn't provide enough detail on specific engines for you to actually work on them, but it does provide an excellent overview on how two stroke outboards work. Reading through it gave me the basic understanding I needed so that when I did get the factory service manual for my Merc outboards I understood what I was looking at. It might be a better option than a service manual as an introduction to capacitor discharge ignition, reed valves, oil injection, etc. that are common to most of the outboards manufactured in the last 20 years.
Dave

[Max_Florida]

Thanks Blue Heron! Just ordered it for $12 w/ shipping. That was exactly what I wanted, don't know why I didn't think of looking for a book like that.

I also ordered Chapmans Piloting and Seamanship. I figured I should learn some stuff about actually using the boat too, haha.

Thanks for all of the info guys, I really appreciate it!