Honda or Ficht? - Page 4

barnacle · #31 06-05-2003, 10:16 PM

John it happens all the time. A dealer brings a boat in with lets say a 175. A customer comes in and wants that boat with a 200. The dealer is not going to order in another boat with a 200 on it. Thats what the boat manufacture wants and everyone else in the industry wants him to do. So the dealer pulls the 175 off and installs the 200. Done deal. Now this dealer has a new 175 that he paid around 30% less then regular dealer cost. New boats should not come prepackaged and this would solve this problem. It adds up take the 250 di engine with a dealer cost of 14090. A package dealer takes the 250 off and installs a 200. He now has the 250 and can sell it for under 10000, and still make some money. Its all a number game.

barnacle · #32 06-05-2003, 10:26 PM

I didnt say you were born yesterday. ANd not all motors come mounted on the transome. Sorry I even put my two cents in, but after being in this game for 15 years I know all the ins and outs when it comes to outboard sales.

ocuyler · #33 06-05-2003, 10:31 PM

OK now boys,

My intention in starting this thread was not to find the best "deal", but to make a good decision for this boat and buy it and have it installed by a reputable on-water dealer that will work with me on the propping and be there when I need him. If I wanted to cheap about it and save money, I'd recondition the 200 Yamaha that came off and reinstall it at virtually no cost. I appreciate everyone's input, but would appreciate it if you guys could continue the dealer vs. no dealer wholesale debate on a seporate thread.

The more I look into it, the Yamaha 200/225 HPDI has my attention. Why?

First, weight is a major consern. These guys are around 470, about the same as the 89 200 I took off and the performance is about the same. The big difference is the MPG, which is about the same as the Honda and Ficht.

Second, if you look at resale value, nobody is going to de-value a 23 SeaCraft with a late model Yamaha.

I spoke with a client friend who runs a 23CC Parker with a Yamaha 200 HPDI out of Beaufort, NC says he's on his third year with no problems, even spark plugs. Most of his offshore buddies like them too.

I'll have pricing tommorrow, which will give me enough info to make an informed decision.

Thanks again for everyone's help. To be continued...

[ June 05, 2003, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: Otto Cuyler ]

barnacle · #34 06-05-2003, 11:12 PM

Otto the Yam 200 hpdi I believe is based on there 2.6 block which is the same as the 175 and 150. The Evinrude weights more due to its a 3.3 block 90 deg. block. Which one is better who knows. THey all have there advantages and disavantages, there ups and downs. I would go with a 2 stroke di or hpdi over the big 4 strokers out there.

ocuyler · #35 06-05-2003, 11:31 PM

Joe,

Thanks very much for your reply. I agree with you and you're right, who knows. I don't know if you could make a really bad decision with the level of quality accros the board.

John R · #36 06-06-2003, 12:17 AM

Joe - I'm sincerly not trying to bust your stones here and I see a bit of what you are saying - after all, we're having a discussion on a discussion board. I just don't see the difference being 5K and I don't see the guy looking at the boat with a 200 paying 5K more for a 225 to put a motor that didn't come on a boat, with the higher markup. Just doesn't add up...

The 250 Ficht ~cost~ for 14 and change - is that just the motor? With controls & tank?

Thanks,

John

barnacle · #37 06-06-2003, 08:55 PM

No problem John, dealers that sell this way have a system down. Each sales person knows the game plan. GO to your local dealer and you will not see prices on any of there boats. Before they even start to quote prices you lock in on the engine size reguardless of the engine size thats on the boat. Plus all the other items you want with it. THe salespeople know the base price of the boat only. THey know the base cost of the outboard that was ordered with the boat. ANd they have the base of a bigger or smaller engine plus they know the promo or special that the engine man. is offering to the dealer at the time. 99% of the times a dealer can make alot more money swapping engines and the consumer does not even know whats going on. This is why many times they are trying to push you on a diferent size engine. Its all in the paperwork. THats why at a boat show when they do show a price for everyone to see, it is a show only purchase with what is on that boat. Dont try to upgrade the engine on that boat or your gonna pay for it. Another way these engines get to dealers is lets say a boat company ordered 150 200hps. THey are know getting ready to put out next year product but they still have 50 200hps in stock. There not going to bolt that left over engine on a new boat. SO they call there dealers that they work good with and sell them off to them. No one will admit this is going on but it is. 14 is the engine with battery cables.

Mark · #38 06-06-2003, 09:44 PM

Joe,

Thanks for the peak into how it all works. I'm not in the market for a new boat but find this very interesting.

John R · #39 06-06-2003, 09:47 PM

Again, not trying to crack stones here - then how does a certain dealer in VA offer the 250 for 12,5 in the crate ? Priced up on the Internet? Are the costs different by volume at a shop? In the car buisiness, everyone pays the same price. You have a fixed cost and a fixed percentage of holdback on some makes - this holdback often determines if the new car lines actually turn a rare profit - but everyone pays the same. Is that the same with the outboard dealers too? Not counting this engine shipped with boat bit... thanks..

barnacle · #40 06-06-2003, 10:52 PM

Every dealer pays the same price up frount. Most have a min. buy of 16 engines up frount. No matter how many you buy you get a fixed percentage when the engine is registered. Most engine man. give you around 3%. THe difference comes in at rebate check at the end of the year. There are about 3 levels of buying. You must comment and take dilevery by 3 months into the new model year. THe first level is 16 engines. THe dealer will get around 1.5%. If you take delivery of 26 engines your around 2.5% If you take delivery of 60 engines you may get 6% back. THis comes in a credit for parts purchases. THe only other discount a dealer can get is if he pays cash for his order and does not floor plan the engines. This can range anywhere from 1 to 3%. Thats all the rebates there are. At least thats all there was for the 2003 model year which comes to a close this month. The key to getting a good deal on a engine is to find a dealer that has the engine you need. You have to hope he floor plained it and he has had it for at least 31 days. Thats when he starts to pay interest to the floor plan company. You take the 14000 engine and start paying 1.5% every month on that amount and the cost of that engine starts going up. THe interest he pays does not go towards his cost of the engine. You take a engine that you had in stock for almost a year and now the 2004 will be out in a few weeks you need to dump that engine. We have sold many outboards thru the years at a huge loss just to get rid of them off the floor plan bill. ANd thats the name of the game. THere are no big breaks to any special dealers. Its like I said outboard sales are cut throat. Its very stressfull but keeps you on your toes. Its not uncommon for a dealer to sell way below his cost just to get rid of it. To be a dealer you have to put up with it. Without offering outboard sales you do not get parts or there service schools.