Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Pulled the floor section on my 23' Inboard. It is approximately 5' x 6' and spans over the two gas tanks. The outer skin is fine so I am just redoing the bottom.
I can probably match the way this was done- 3/4"plywood ribs and plywood squares.
My question is- Is there a better way to construct this with contemporary products? Am I better off making the ribs out of hard wood? Should I use divinycell?
What product should I use to attach the plywood or divinycell?
When all is said and done it has to span the 5 foot to the other side without touching the tanks.
I'm sure some of you guys have done this and I appreciate your input- trying to post images....don't know what I'm doing wrong.
[image]http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/Fred246/Floor2.jpg?t=1267483938[/image]

[image]http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/Fred246/Floor1.jpg?t=1267484982[/image]

[image]http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/Fred246/Floor1.jpg?t=1267484982[/image]

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

That is kinda broad, there is alot more to it than that, obviously you cut the deck out? How do you plan on putting it back down? Composites are the way to go (IMHO) but $$ may be an issue. You should decide which way you want to go, then someone can help. As far as posting pics go. Go to the pictures thread, follow the top thread.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

On my 23 inboard the deck over the tanks is screwed down - no cutting that I'm aware of. Unscrew it and lift if out. I've never done it but it seems pretty straight forward.

You might want to follow the thread I think it was Strick's floor replacement in his new project. He did a total rebuild of the floor in his. Cut out the back and follow his example. If I remember right mine has ribs that the deck sits on for support.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

[image]http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/Fred246/Floor1.jpg?t=1267500014[/image]
Thanks for your response- it is a removable section of floor-originally done (on the bottom)with 3/4 " plywood ribs on end and roughly 6" x 6" square plywood then glassed over. I followed chucks photo advice step by step, but still not working don't know what I am doing wrong.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Yeah, I have it out and on a frame right now. Strick is amazing and making the whole floor- I'm saving the skin and plan on rebuilding the bottom. Wish I could get the photo up.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

I rebuilt this same floor /hatch on my inboard last spring. I pulled all the old plywood out and replaced it with 1/2" plywood squares ala Strick. Glassed over it with a layer of 1708. I beveled all the edges at a 45 angle so I could completely encapsulate the plywood. Originally some of the plywood edges were exposed which allowed water to rot out the plywood. So far so good --

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Let me help with the pics, gotta get rid of everything past the ".jpg"

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/x...246/Floor2.jpg

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/x...246/Floor1.jpg

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Here you go Fred. Just left click on the bottom dialogue box of each foto when in photobucket. It will flash "copied" then switch to CSC post and paste. [IMG] before "http:" and [IMG] immediately after ".jpg"

[IMG]http:examplei749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/Fred246/freds/floorjibberish.jpg[IMG]

Good luck with the floor. :cool:

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/x...246/Floor1.jpg

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Thanks for the help with the photos! Think I got it.
Mine was a victim of water coming in the edges and the floor turned into a sponge. Deepsushi- Did you put ribs back in on yours or just the plywood squares? Are there materials that would keep the floor lighter and stronger?

Looks like I have a day or two of work just cleaning this up. [image]http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/x...246/Floor1.jpg[/image]

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Not to change the subject, but why did they use plywood squares? The only reason I can think of is in case of water infiltration only 6 inches at a time get wet.

Keep the updates coming - I think my floor is not far behind yours.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

The core of my hatches were done the same way so I'm guessing that was the manufacturing procedure back then. Not sure why-maybe all the direction changes helped strengthen the fiberglass?
This is a little bigger than doing the hatches though. I did them with mahogany squares set in West System & filler. So far so good on those.
I have some time to figure this out while do some mindless cutting and scraping. I'll post progress. Appreciate any input from guys who have been there-done that.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

The reason they used the plywood squares was A) Thats what they had at the time. B) Cost. C) Intalling small squares was easier. If you used Divinicell or some other core material it will be lighter and stronger and will not rot, you will have to intall the bracing for stength, although they might not need to be as many or as large. it would also pay to use a vinylester or epoxy resin. IMHO of course!

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Fred,

I did not put the ribs back in. I did get a little bounce / deflection without them so I am going to pull the hatch back out this spring and glass in some stiffeners. I think I am going to use some 1 1/4 " pvc pipe ripped in half as the stiffener "base" and glass over it with some 1708.

I considered using one of the composite products as a core. However, the composites are a lot more expensive than plywood. Th original plywood lasted 30 years and it only failed due to the exposed plywood edges that allowed water to penetrate into the core.

Cutting the plywood into squares accomplishes two things:

1.) it eliminates any warpage in a full sheet of plywood.
2.) it is a much more efficient use of material. I recored the whole hatch with 2/3 of a sheet of plywood. If I utilized larger pieces I would of needed at least two sheets of plywood using large "whole" pieces.
3.) the theory of the alternating grain orientation is that it will prevent water intrusion between individual core pieces ( I am skeptical of this as every square was fully water saturated in the hatches I have done in both my 18 footer and the 23 footer.)

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

The reason that all the squares got wet was because the factory just butted the ends of the squares next to each other...rather then leaving a gap and filling that gap with cabosil. The picture above is a very common sight on this board :D Leave a space and fill the gap and that wont happen. Also it will be stronger.

http://www.casdvm.com/photos/25%232internet/116.JPG

As far as composites go...they are supposed to be waterproof and we know at least temporarily they are but I've seen water trapped in foam over time... they are expensive and you cant just go down to Home Depot and pick up a sheet for 30 bucks. Another thing to think about is that this is new technology that has not stood the test of time...whos to say that boats with composite coreing will not crumble apart in 30 years? :D :D at least we know what plywood is capable of. That said I do like composits for some things and I have several sheets of corecell sitting in my shop waiting for something special to attach themselves to.

strick

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Manufacturing with composites has been going on at least since the 1980s. If my memory serves me right every Contender and Intrepid built was a composite boat. I know for a fact the Contenders were.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

I just went back and review pics of my inboard project and here's what I remember. When recoring I asked about the squares as well and did not go that route. I used Peske board (which is good IMO) and did not cut it into squares. What happened was I would get small air voids no matter how hard I tried to evenly squeeze the pieces together. Then I cut a grid pattern 3/4 the way through the material to make it shape better. If I were to do it again I would consider the grid or squares. With the squares you are more likely to get the air out and form better to the shape of your skin (like tiling). Mine had mahoganney~ strips laying over the fuel tanks for struts. It did not go back together this way! P.S. Check your tanks.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

What Strick says in entirely correct. The coring probably will absorb moisture over time. No matter what you use it should be properly sealed. I look at it in a different sense, weight to strenght ratio. That same hatch in wood or coring is probably a 30-50 difference, do that around the boat and it adds up. All comes down to how much you want to spend and how light you want it, Truth be told, if done properly, either way will outlast how long you or someone else will own the boat.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Exactly why the core is cut into squares! One of my first jobs at Sea Vee Boats back in early 80s was to reduce 4x8 sheets of 3/4" ply to 5" squares on the table saw. :D

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Here is a picture of Penske type board scrimed an scored ready to be put down.

I used this on my front deck.




http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...r/IMG_3306.jpg


The squares are smaller for more contour. But I think you get the idea.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Plenty to digest while I cut and grind. Also got some input from my local boat builder. He suggested using pvc pipe, cut in half and glassed in place for the ribs.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Got it cleaned up
[image]http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/x...246/Floor3.jpg[/image]

Any thoughts on building up the stringers adjacent to the muffler to the bottom of the floor height so the floor has less of a span? Any reason this was not done originally?
http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/x...246/tanks1.jpg

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

What you could do at this point is take 2by stock and notch it out 1/2 or 3/4 by 2 inches depending on how wide the "stringer" is next to the tank. Now the notched out area sits down on the existing stringer and extends up past deck, snap a chaulk line at desired height. Its kind of confusing but I hope this helps. Just one method of many. I'll try to post a pic of the concept but I think it may be tiny ( can't resize)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o...DSCN0504-2.jpg

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

You could add what you need to the botom of the hatch to make it contact the middle stringers.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Nice to know I don't have to span the whole 56". Now to decide on core materials and methods. I think one reason the original failed is the way the top deck and bottom mat were joined. (Like the top image)Mine had separated at a few points and all of the wood was soggy.
[image]http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/x...ed246/SEAM.jpg[/image]

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Did my grinding and clean-up. 2 pails worth of soggy plywood and fiberglass! Then I laid out a plan. I would love some feed back from guys who have done this before I start. Here goes:

It starts with 3 pieces of Nidacore cut as shown by the dotted lines on the left diagrams.
I picked the Nidacore because it is light, they can ship it in 2'x4' pieces and three will work out perfect.(note two different thicknesses.) In the area where I thought I should use 3/8" there are stringers and fuel vents below.
I am hoping to eliminate the struts by using the 1" material.
The mahogany works for bolts for my leaning post and to allow me to use the least number of Nidacore and seams(I think)
Questions:
Will the 1" product be enough support for the floor?
Will the 1.5 oz cloth go around the corners okay?
Is but-seaming the Nidacore okay?Does the edge shown in the section make sense?
Should I try to put a slight crown in the floor to help drain water or go perfectly flat?
[image]http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/x.../FLOORPLAN.jpg[/image]
Thanks!

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Fred, contact Jeff Bootz at Nida-Core. His cell # is (772) 486-2680... He will know best.

Re: Soggy Floor - help needed
 

Awesome, Thank you!