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23 CC rebuild - shine
Picked up my next project boat yesterday :) Its a 23' CC.
Some work has already been done on this boat. The transom has been enclosed, and the stringers raised 2" . The work was really well done (all epoxy), so i will not need to rip it out. The transom enclosure has a couple hatch liners included, which was nice The boat did not have liner, so i will need to either core the sides or make a shelf/frames to stiffen it up. I plan to use all wood/epoxy/biax for this one. I will probably keep this boat myself, so wood is not a concern. Since I did not have the pleasure of ripping the boat apart ;) I do not have measurements/locations that I will need to "re-locate" console/tank/baitwell/etc. Im hoping some of you guys can help me with these. I will post individual questions later as seperate topics, this thread I will just use to update progress. will get better pictures next time I pull the boat out.. http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_005.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_003.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_008.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_006.jpg |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
i was tryin to buy this boat. you beat me to it. you wouldnt happen to know where another one is would you? anyways. looks good so far. how do you plan on doing the baitwell in the transom?
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Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
have not found another very close.
Im not sure Im going to use the baitwell in the transom, if I do ti will be a secondary well. Im figuring my weights right now. For fishing the rear well is nice, for CG issues it might be tough to make it work without moving fuel/console up too. Good luck finding another one. |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
I'd move the tank forward and go with a single 150 gallon tank. The batteries were originally installed in the bilge area behind the tank. They should be moved under the console which will help. In my opinion on a CC the more weight moved forward the better as my 1977 runs "bow proud". I can get some measurements but you can get most from the brochures list on this site. Good luck.
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Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
I am not sure what your plans are for using this boat, but when I redid mine, I put in a 150 gal tank, and with a single suzuki 4 stroke, I probably only needed 100 gallon. When you try to plane it out with 1/2 tank of gas, the gas all sloshes to the back, and you have to work it a bit.
I have never been able to burn more than 50 gals in a day. It is probably the only thing if I had to do over I would change. |
Re: 23 Rebuild
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Re: 23 Rebuild
I went with a 120 Gal. Tank and thats been working out pretty good for me.
FellowShip . Just for the Grins :D Official 23 SF Antique Classic SeaCraft Owner |
Re: 23 Rebuild
you may not need to core the hull insides, I did my 20 without any and my current Conch 27 does not have any either. You will be very surprised how stiff the hull sides become once you tab the deck to it. On my 20 I laid in some fairing compound and then gelcoated it, on the Conch I think they hit the woven roven with a D/A and 60 grit then rolled the gel on, not pretty, but it could be if you spent some time with fairing.
Nice score by the way that boat looks like a perfect blank canvas!! |
Re: 23 Rebuild
I hindsight, twin 60 gal would be great, but it is what it is now. When I get a 40 gal livewell in the transom full of water, 100 pounds of ice in the fish box in the floor, the 250 suzuki hanging 3 feet off the back, and a couple fishing buddies decide to sit on the transom, it can take a minute or so to get on plane. The trim tabs pretty much fix the problem.
Weight is an issue with these boats, and my goal has been to remove every pound I don't need. |
Re: 23 Rebuild
Thanks guys. The coring of the sides, Im still up in the air about, I may just go with stiffeners and "box frames"
John B, that is helpful. How far is you sole above the waterline? How well does the cockpit drain? I am trying to lighten it up a bit. Dual tanks is something I have been considering, its a pretty easy thing to do, and will allow me to adjust trim. I really do not like the idea of the bait tank sitting on the transom. I like it for fishing, but you have 2 guys standing back there rigging/fishing, 100 gallons of water, then a heavy outboard 30" further back then originally designed. |
Re: 23 Rebuild
The sole is mounted at the factury height.
Unless you get 2 guys standing in the corner at rest, the scuppers stay dry. I also have the rabud covers on them, so water doesn't come in. Cockpit drains fine. I mounted my bracket as low as I could get it to get max floatation at rest. |
Re: 23 Rebuild
Nice project :cool: How much was added to the stringer height? Like others have said...I never have a wet floor. My 23 was converted from twin I/O to an outboard bracket. Its the "large console" model. Bats were moved to console. New tank is 80gals. I dont have "as built" measurements but below is my sketch plan. I love the boat and the way it came out. Good luck with yours!
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...ncc/Slide1.jpg and my boat ;) http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...GEDC0317-1.jpg |
Re: 23 Rebuild
Sweet ride! :cool:
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Re: 23 Rebuild
Hermit, thats very helpful. I am after a very similar setup. Is your sketch pretty accurate in terms of tank location?
The stringers have been raised 2" above normal. I dont have the liner, so I do not know the original level of the sole. The original liner would have had a core, plus the putty that was used between the liner and the tops of the stringers. I could just be back to normal with my 2" raised stringer plus new sole. My new sole will be bonded directly to the top of the stringers with epoxy (1/4") gap maximum. What I really need to know is the original sole level OR (even better) how far up from the keel is your loaded water line ? As you CG and trim will be almost the same as mine, this will be extremely helpful. Joel |
Re: 23 Rebuild
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BTW - Hermit's boat is setup perfectly . . . it's a rocket out of the hole and cruises nicely at 30mph. It's super responsive too . . . turns on a dime. |
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Re: 23 Rebuild
Joel,
My sketch plan is not to scale but yes...it is an acurate tank location. I can get some measurements for you if youd like. There is also an oil tank mounted in the bilge aft of the tank. Like Bigshrimpin said the boat performs very nice. An Etec on the back would make it perfect ;). I cant take credit for the layout as it was copied from Strick's 23 and various Hermco re-habs :o I just chose a smaller tank for my use. |
Re: 23 Rebuild
that waterline measurement would be great. :)
Its fine that the sketch isn't to scale, i will scale in a some software we use. Just so long as the center of the tank is accurate. |
Re: 23 Rebuild
Good topic and our colors are very similar! My tank is ~120 and I can get a decent measurement if needed. I believe my deck is std. height.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...t/DSC_0369.jpg |
Re: 23 Rebuild
The bottom of my boot stripe is 5.5 inches above the chine. The water line at rest is 2 inches above chine. The full tub on the bracket really floats the tail end of the boat.
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Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
Hi Shine:
I decided to jump in on this one a little more in detail. Maybe I can help a little bit. Distribution of weight must be considered first. The more you move things forward the better it is on these 8 beam SeaCrafts. I moved my center line (bow / stern) 12 to 18 forward which of course will effect how far down the stern will squat. If you dont take this factor into consideration you could place your scuppers below the water line. Which has cause many problems on SeaCrafts. I moved my tank forward, I removing the step down storage section under the CC and adding a extra 20 gal. of gas. I also moved the batteries the oil tank and a 15 gal fresh water tank under the CC as well. I also moved the live well forward from the transom. The live well center line is now 42 forward of my transom. I decided to go with a single motor on the transom and did not raise the floor if I wanted to go with twins I think raising the deck and going with a twin flotation bracket would be the best way to go. The center line of my scuppers is 5 ½ up from the bottom corner of the transom. Review ALL the pictures of boats sitting in the water on your thread and you can see the differences in how they sit and how the scuppers would be effected. My scuppers are a straight shout out the back from the deck. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-a...60259_9011.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-a..._60297_834.jpg Livewell Tank and the stern of my gas tank is under the Seat and tuns to the hatch just infront of the CC door. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-a...60281_3589.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-a...60516_2738.jpg FellowShip . Just for the Grins :D :D Official 23 SF Antique Classic SeaCraft Owner |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
If I could jump in here with a question. Fellowship, where is the water line in relation to the scuppers?
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Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
Hi Cheg:
On my boat, taking under consideration all I said about what I did moving things forward my water line is approx ½ down from the top 90 degree corner edge of my trim tab bracket that screws into the transom. With a single engine on the transom or a bracket with flotation for twins it should be somewhere like mine. With a twin engine configuration the 23 will squat more and that water line would be higher on the transom. Thats why for me if I were to ever go with twin configuration I would want to raise the deck. The SeaCraft design is a VERITABLE Deadrise hull and it sits in the water different that a straight 24 degree deadrise hull does. My boat sits on a bunk type trailer. The bow of my boat does not rest on the bow side of my bunks. There is a gap of approx 1-2 between the boat hull and the bunks. If this is true on my trailer it is also true sitting in the water. This is part of the reason why moving things forward on SeaCrafts is important. It helps in the bow to stern teeter totter effect to be reduced to a minimum. This needs to be factored into you over all re building plan. If not, your SeaCraft might look Great, it might right grate in ruff seas but it will effect you sitting at the dock or drifting around in open seas. This is why many guys want to close off the transom and put a bracket on But if you add too much weight then the next issue is all the scupper threads on this sight. Think About It. FellowShip . Just for the Grins :D :D Official 23 SF Antique Classic SeaCraft Owner |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
Thank you to everyone for the data. I have enough information now to plan the boat.
I do not want to redesign the boat, although I am able to do this - redraw to boat from scratch and redesign the weights. It would mean making a model and I fiddle with weights and spit new out hydrostatics . One of the appeals of choosing a re-build is that all that work is done, all I need is original locations and weights and I can move everything around and maintain the CG and waterline the designer had in mind. Far be it for me to change a well balanced design :) Also, the fact that this forum exists was a major consideration in choosing a seacraft to rebuild. Without a source like this forum, I would have to do a lot more work Im getting very excited to use this boat, Im hoping to have it ready for power by May. |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
Great info. Thanks.
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Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
If it were me starting with what you have. Here is what I would do:
1. Core the sides (it will be bullet proof) 2. Put the consel were it was intended by the factory or maybe a just a hair forward. Remember every inch you move the consel forward equal's more pounding on your feet. 3. Move the fuel tank forward so that the front of it is even with the front of the consel. 4. batteries in the consel 5. Build your new deck and bond it to the top of the stringers. Since your stringers have already been raised 2 inches there should be no need to raise it any more. I'm not sure about your year boat but the boats built in the 70's were self bailing at the original height. 6. build the livewell above deck just behind the leaning post. Again I'm not sure about the 80's boats but the cockpit sole on the 70's was bonded to the top's of the stringers and it should have been no dead air between the stringers and the bottom of the sole. But then again that may vary depending on if a boat was built on a Monday of a Friday On my 75 it was a tight bond: http://www.casdvm.com/photos/DSCN2982.JPG http://www.casdvm.com/photos/DSCN3036.JPG PS do away with the flat butt and put a nice arched transom on that boat if you are going to go with a bracket :cool: strick |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
additional layer of 3/4" ply epoxied into place, tabbing of 3 layers of tape are in, now we are cutting the wide biax for the new inside skin. Found a 109 gallon tank that will work, have not bought it yet, still want to find two tanks that will fit (without having to pay $500+ for each one !)
http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_036.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_045.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_041.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_042.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_044.jpg |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
reinforcing stringers (building thickness to 3/16" minimum everywhere). what you see on the stringers in these shots is 3 layers of 1810, all wet on wet. Will do other side this afternoon. I am going to add a couple layers of tabbing also (stringers to hull).
http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_067.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_068.jpg We still have two more layers of 1810 to go on transom. :) 8O |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
holy cr*p those things look beefy :cool: foam filling?
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Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
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After building the required thickness, i will re-tab the inside of each stringer. There are no signs of delam, but the glass job was not the best, so for peace of mind Im going to re-tab. |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
Looking good! I was reading over prior posts and have to agree with the question about the "flat butt". I know it wouldn't be practical as far as shedding water, but for aesthetics, I was thinking you could glass in a piece behind the fishbox hatches on the cap to match the arc of the factory boats just to give it the same appearance. Kinda like a spoiler. From any given angle, at a glance, it would have the curve most people have grown accustomed to seeing without having to rework the rest of the stern. Just a thought. Keep up the good work!
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Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
rest of the stringer tops have been reinforced, capped with 3/16" of extra glass. Have ordered two 55 gallon belly tanks, these will fit low enough that I will be able to run some extra chases over the tanks and down the center. Tanks are going to be epoxy coated, bolted to stringers, foamed in, then glassed over.
Have decided against a livewell/leaning post combo in favor of just the leaning post, not enough cockpit room. Will probably build an extra 30-40 gallon well under the sole, to go along with 30 gallon in transom. Will probably rarely use the extra big well in deck, but its easy to build and will be nice to have as extra capacity. Added tabbing of two layer 1708 added all around the transom. http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_075.jpg Center stringer/drain put in. This is light 4" drain field PVC, covered with 3 layers 1708. fillet putty: http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_080.jpg glassed in: http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_082.jpg Began working on molds for hatches and hatch lips/frames. Below is the rough cutout of the mold for a 20" square hatch. The hatch flange will fit flush into the top of the deck/sole, glued into a 3/16" recess that will be cut into the deck surface. There is enough room for the hatch to fit into the lip along with a 1/4" gasket. Should be pretty close to waterproof. Mold is CNC cut out of MDF, still have to round off the corners and add some fillets on the inside turns. Will cover with high-build primer, sand, then make parts. Will make a couple others for the rest of the boat. Large 20" square will be for bilge, in deck live well, and front fish box. A rectangle (maybe 13"x25") for front seats, console, and rear transom bulkhead. Also a triangle hatch for the anchor. 2 layers MDF glued up http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_077.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_079.jpg rough cut of hatch lip mold http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_084.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_085.jpg |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
good day for picture uploading, 40 degrees in south FL :?
progress on the hatch mold. Did not leave enough room to allow for router collete to fit :? so I had to manually round over the edges with profile sander. Was actually very easy and only took a few minutes. Sealed the MDF up with a coat of epoxy, then added fillets on the inside turns. Next will be high build primer http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_087.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_088.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_101.jpg Tanks arrived. Two 55 gallon belly tanks. These will sit between the stringers. Positioned with at least 1.5" clearance all around to give space for foam. Epoxied mounting blocks to side of stringers. With tanks located, we made frames and glassed them in. Tanks get two heavy coats of coal tar epoxy http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_096.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_104.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_107.jpg two of the three frames. http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_117.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_118.jpg tanks are sanded with 80 grit immediately before the epoxy coating. Aluminum oxidizes so fast that you have maybe 20 minutes to get the epoxy on and have a good bond. http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_111.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_112.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_114.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_115.jpg Chase tubes: With the additional glass covering the stringers I no longer have the room to fit in a 2.5" tube in the stringer notches. It was close, but could not get the sweep position where I want using regular PVC. Decided to try 2" flexible electrical conduit for the side chases. Fits very nice. I will have a couple other chases down the center along with these two 2" down the side. http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_099.jpg |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
Shine,
please inspect the tanks for alumn shavings. Also pull the pickup tube to inspect it is the right length and not too long and crammed against the bottom. Believe me on this...I recognize those manufact labels and although well built....you may want to do your own inspection before sending them home. Just my $.02....Boat looks great! |
Re: 23 CC rebuild - shine
thanks for the tip. Pulled the feeds and the sender, all looks good.
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Re: 23 Rebuild
Here you go... they are in the "Specifications" section on the Home page
http://www.classicseacraft.com/SF23inboard.htm |
Re: 23 Rebuild
great looking project shine, stringers and transom tab looks bulletproof. the twin tank idea was a great choice for dealing with c/g issues. i agree with strick as far as crowning the transom cap. (his boats all look great in the rear) as far as a transom livewell, looks cool, i was going to do one on my 20, but if available the floor is a better place for the baitwell. i consulted a profesional tournament fisherman i trust (my brother) and he said below deck with a lower c/g the bait sloshes around less and lives longer. just some consideration before all the work is dry. good luck on the project all looks great so far.
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Re: 23 Rebuild
Very nice boat the bracket looks great
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Re: 23 Rebuild
some work before new years.....
tanks foamed in.... http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_128.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_127.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_136.jpg Was able to fit a 2" PVC pipe chase in addition to the 2" flex. total of 4 2" chases, will add another from console to bow, and a third from fuel compartment to bilge http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_133.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_132.jpg gluing cleat to the side of hull (sole will rest on theses). Cleat are two layers of 3/4". First layer is epoxied to hull with the assistance of hot glue gun, next layer is held by screws until epoxy cures, will then remove screws and completely coat cleats with epoxy resin. First step is to located the sole level on the sides, use a straight edge balanced across stringers to make marks every foot, then connect marks to make line. Cleats are glued about 1/4" under the line so as to give plenty of room for epoxy putty when we bed down the sole. http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_139.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_142.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_143.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_144.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_145.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_146.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_147.jpg some progress on the deck hatch. Mold is well waxed and also coated with PVA. Overkill, but the mold surface is not perfect, so I wanted to be sure. http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_137.jpg Started with some scraps of light weight cloth, its all I could get to take the bend. Let the cloth partially cure before adding strips of biax tape. http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_141.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_148.jpg http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/us..._shine_149.jpg After cleats are cured and coated, we will fill sides spaces with foam (except path for fuel fill/vents). Then glass over tanks. We are also adding some extensions to tips of the stringers. the original boat had a molded liner up in the bow that stiffened up the hull, so we need to replace that stiffness with a couple longitudinal and a floor frame (or two). that forward space is going to be ice/fish box, storage, and maybe a fresh water tank. Happy new year :) |
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