How reliable are the newer engines?
 

Seems like all 20 footers run single engines without any kicker. Are the 4 stokes and newer 2 strokes very reliable? Does a lot have to do with weight issues? My 20 sceptre came with twin vro 60's. I'm thinking of upgrading and not sure to go twin or single. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

I have an older Yamaha F100 on my 20MA (same as a F90, with higher RPM limit). I also have a 30" shaft tohatsu 6hp SailPro kicker. Both 4 stroke. Weights are 367 and 58 lb, respectively. I wouldn't put more on a stock 20" transom. But I love the security. I have a 20 gallon tank for the F100 which gets 5? MPG and 6 gallon portable tank for the kicker. I like the combination. Batteries and tank are under my console. I am way more comfortable off shore with a kicker. It will charge a battery, too.

A second 6gallon tank is a nice get you home margin on a 5MPG main engine. And a 5 gallon Jerry can is 25 more miles. Ballasted wherever you like.

I have over 500 hrs on my E-TEC and have had zero reliability problems; starts instantly on the first revolution every time! Although the boat is just barely self bailing with the big Hermco bracket, at 429 lbs, I sure wouldn't go any heavier on the motor for balance reasons, especially with a bracket. Took it on a 700 mile trip in 2010, loaded very heavy with 2 coolers, gear, groceries, and extra gas jugs, averaged about 4.5 mpg, cruising at 27-31 mph.


Those I-3 60's were much lighter than any of the new motors, so I wouldn't recommend any modern motor for twins because of weight, but all the modern moters are very reliable so I wouldn't worry about a single. A single plus a small kicker is also a viable option, since with twin 4-strokes, you probably wouldn't have enough mid-range torque to plane on one engine anyway! The 2.6L V-6 E-TEC (135, 150, 175, 200) is PLENTY of power for a 20, but even the 115/130 HP V-4 is more than enough power if you run in rough stuff a lot, and the boat will ride better and plane at lower speed with almost 50 lbs less weight on the transom!

1700 hours on a 2004 df250 4 stroke that has never left me stranded. Put your money in a towboat us or seatow policy and a sat phone. They will come to you if by some remote chance you have an issue. The policies are cheap because their risk is low.

You also have to consider the statistical likelihood you will have a failure very far offshore. Set aside the chances are very low for any failure to consider your best chance for a failure at your furthest destination is at 30% of that. If you're taking your 20 footer 50+ miles offshore you are way more likely to have an environmental problem than a mechanical one.

For those who enjoy the security of additional kicker engines, I have a nice honda 8 hp in long shaft perfect for the job. It will never end up back on my rig again so it is available for any interested.

Ken....might be interested....is the 8 hp honda a 2 stroke???
I am running a 1990 Looper so obviously need two stroke unless I run seperate tank for the kicker if it is 4 stroke...
P.S. your windshield worked out great Thanks again!
-Fred

The honda is a 4 stroke. Glad it worked out. Still have lots of misc. Sceptre/Tsunami parts I may consider bringing to the next gathering.

Thanks for the input guys. I'm just worried about getting stranded with a single. And I'm not sure if we have that type of insurance in hawaii. What do you think about the yamaha 70's? Weight is 257 pounds each. I'll be adding a bracket and it's only about 54 pounds heavier than my 60's.

I looked at that option and came to the conclusion it is too heavy. Fr. Frank can weigh in on 20 footers rigged with small twin 2 strokes like yours. But twin 4 strokes is pretty heavy.

My 14 year old Yamaha hasn't stranded me yet- the kicker rarely gets used, but it does push the boat along well and is nice for trolling. When I have money, I will get a Teleflex SEASTAR (not Baystar) hydraulic steering so I can steer the kicker from the helm with the add-on.

Funny Moose should mention a sat phone. I was looking at buying one an hour ago.

Boat U.S./Vessel Assist operates out of Honolulu and Kona. For a $150 annual membership they'll fetch you at no additional cost 50 miles from the coast. if you're 10 miles farther out you only ante up for the 10 mile tow to the 50 mile mark. The balance is covered.

I don't think I'd put 500 lbs of twins on a 20' sink-craft. Maybe with a twin flotation bracket like Hermco's. Otherwise, no way. Single modern motor is pretty dang reliable and fuel efficient. Add a stow-able kicker until you trust your motor, and vessel assist, and you're golden.

Always having had older boats and motors, I can't say enough about Vessel Assist. Best $150 I spend every year whether I call them or not.

Understand the desire for get home capability, but I agree with Gillie and FS . . . 514 lbs, especially mounted way aft on a bracket, is too much of a CG shift for the 20' hull! Trust me, I went from a 300 lb motor on the transom to a 429 lb motor on a 30" bracket, on a Seafari, which is less stern heavy than a CC model, and I still had to make a lot of performance compromises with a 4B prop and drag-creating doelfin to get back to the sweet ride, low planing speed and great handling I had originally!

Not sure you could even move the gas tank and batteries far enough forward to compensate. Maybe it'd work if you moved the whole console a couple feet forward. A Hermco bracket MIGHT keep it reasonably level at the dock, but the flotation tank's out of the water when you're on plane, so the boat will still know that you seriously screwed up it's CG, Your min planing speed will be in the mid-20's instead of the low teens. Rather than have an expensive stern-heavy twin engine rig that won't plane on one engine, I'd vote for a cheaper well balanced boat with single engine + kicker that rides better, costs less to operate and maintain, and still provides equal safety/reliability.

Insurance won't work for me. That sucks. Anyway what size kicker would I need for my sceptre? I was also considering the suzuki 140 4s. Will that work with a kicker or will that also be too heavy? Thanks again for all you're expert advise. What would I have done without CSC.

My Yamaha 8 hp hi thrust is plenty for a 25 Seafari or a 23, but more than you need and too heavy for a 20 with a 4 stoke. Not sure what is out there at lighter lower hp. You will need something that is geared down and swings a big prop. Horse power can be very minimal .

My 30" shaft 6hp Tohatsu SailPro with an appropriate prop works fine. The powerhead is way out of the water and you can tiller steer easily that way. A bit rough sounding, though. You can only store it on one side due to the carb layout. It was cheap, at $1350 new. But if I used it lots, I would get a nicer kicker, probably a Yamaha. Hoping that it is nicer sounding and looking. You might be able to get away with a lighter engine, but I haven't tried.

I leave mine on the transom because the main engine is only ~370lb. More convenient than stowing a kicker outboard on a 20 footer.

My thoughts on small boats offshore

Up to 20 miles or so:

Inflatable PFD's
WELL MAINTAINED MECHANICAL, FUEL AND ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS
EPIRB ( An AquaLink 406 personal EPIRB at less than $400 should be standard equipment on all boats )
Handheld VHF with internal GPS
Tow Boat Membership

20 + miles

Life Raft

50 + miles

Sat Phone


If a boat performs well with a single, twins are a waste. I take my 18 cc out 20 miles when weather permits. I rely on a 1999 150 Johnson and the gear I listed for that distance.

The Zuke 140 is about the same weight as the 150 E-TEC and is about as heavy as I'd want to go. It'll work fine, although it's not nearly as strong as the "150" E-TEC (which is actually 165 hp at the prop). However the V-4 "115" E-TEC is actually about 125 hp, but 43 lbs lighter than the V-6, so might be an even better choice if you're running offshore in big seas. That "150" will push your Sceptre to almost 50 mph, but you probably can't use all that power offshore very often. The "115" will use less gas but still give you about 40 mph with lots of mid-range torque, so should be plenty of power for offshore use. I considered the 115 when I repowered my boat, but they were not yet in production when I was ready for a motor.

I have rigged 20's with twin motors before, but they were the 165 lb Mercury 65 and 70 hp 2 strokes, and the 182 lb Evinrude 70 hp 2 strokes. Modern 4S motors are way too heavy for twins unless you drop down to the 50-60 hp range, where you can get started at 205 lbs.

I used to have a 2 hp Suzuki DT2 as a kicker on my 20 Seafari, and it would push me along at about 3.1-3.2 mph on the gps at WOT. Back it off to 3/4 throttle, and I still got 2.5-2.6 mph. So you don't need a lot of power for a kicker. On the other hand, when I had a Chrysler 9.9 hanging off the back, I could troll at 6-7 mph at 3/4 throttle, but full throttle only netted an additional 1.5 mph.

I recommend a reliable 90-140 hp single OB, AND a small 3-5 hp kicker, plus Sea Tow or Vessel Assist/TowBoat US, plus a satellite phone, in that order.

That covers it for sure.

That 140 Zuke is a great motor. Have a friend with a restored 20 Seafari with one mounted right on the transom. Perfect balance and more hp than you will ever use. I'll see if he can give me some performance #s. I'm almost positive he was getting 4 or 5 nautical per gallon.... maybe more.

Not quite.....:eek::eek:;)

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Is there more too it? What would you professionals recommend? I'm am totally undecided.

The only thing I have ever heard about the Zuk 140's is that they get a salt build up around the oil coolers over time. It is easy to maintain - if you know about that tendency to make salt there. You need to talk to someone who has more experience than my hearsay. I'm pretty sure I'm puttin a couple of Zuk 115's on a 25 Bert I'm redoing. Plenty of propeller disc surface, buckets of geared down torque and I understand they are bullet proof.