2007 Etec 175 Questions

[erebus]

Originally Posted by Rybones

(Erebus, as you likely know the name association, my future 23 with the mercury 400hp is to be named "PBR Streetgang".)

[Topflitegraphics]

Rybones, I you don't mind me asking, how much did you get the E-tec for? I am looking for a good used motor for my 20MA and used e-tecs are rare around here. Seems like nobody ever sells them...

[Bushwacker]

Originally Posted by Rybones

. . . If anyone sees this in time, any suggestions about questions to ask or things to look for? ..... (Shifty eyed emoji)

If you haven’t already checked it, there is a small cone shaped fine mesh filter in the vapor separator tank where the fuel return line attaches. Some dealers don’t even know about it because it wasn’t shown in the early parts books, so they often don’t check it. I ran my motor for 6+ years on E10 fuel and that filter clogged up. There were two 10 micron filters between the tank and that filter on my boat, so the black tar-like stuff evidently came from the fuel lines that were being dissolved by the E10 in the fuel! (I believe they upgraded fuel lines after my motor was built in 2006, so if an older motor, it might be worth upgrading to the latest lines.) If it’s clogged the same stuff will also be in the injectors. (Fuel Injector Man in Venice, Fl. has a special set up for flow testing and cleaning E-TEC injectors.) Easiest way to diagnose this problem is to check HP fuel pump discharge pressure at the Schrader valve fitting on the pump. It normally runs only about 35 psi (same simple Carter pump as used in most port injected cars!), but mine was 65 psi and I was having a problem with rough running at 900 rpm, but only when cold.) Since I had the 7 year warranty, BRP replaced all 6 injectors (worth about $2400!) and the motor was running like new with about 900 hrs on it when SSPBill bought it. Except for the fuel lines, the E-TEC injectors & pumps appear to be very tolerant to E10 fuel, but I only ran Rec 90 fuel after that!

If you have to change that filter in the vapor separator tank inlet, be very careful to minimize force on the nipple where it lives, because it’s easy to break off that plastic nipple! There is a little tang on the Oetiker clamps; if you cut it off with a Dremel tool, the clamps are easily removed.

One other comment regarding the 135/150/175/200 hp 2.7L E-TEC power ratings. They are all basically the same powerhead, but BRP appears to be very conservative on the power ratings on the lower HP versions. NAEBM requires that true HP be within +10% of advertised rating, so true HP on the 135/150 is about 10% more than advertised, and maybe +5% on the 175 and maybe 0 to -5% on the 200! So bottom line is that the lower HP motors are surprisingly stong and if you’re looking for a used motor, they may be a much better “bang for the buck” than the 200! Your WOT speed with a 200 may only be 2- 5 mph more than you’d get with a 150 or 175! Intake and exhaust port location (analogous to cam timing on a 4-stroke) and exhaust tuning tweaks often used to get max hp on 2-strokes may also adversely affect mid-range torque, so engines with a lower hp rating may actually have MORE mid-range torque that you want for getting on plane with a heavy load or hanging on plane at lower speed in rough seas! My experience is that a strong mid-range power band is typically more useful and desirable than a few mph at WOT.

[erebus]

Originally Posted by Bushwacker

My experience is that a strong mid-range power band is typically more useful and desirable than a few mph at WOT.

This.
All this.

[Rybones]

Well put Bushwacker, that would be my sentiment on the torque aspects also. I am alsoaware of the VST filter and have reviewed information on extracting and inspecting that but haven't done so yet, its on my list.

As far as NAEBM and the Etec, is is my understanding that aside from the plus or minus 10% of HP rating the only difference between the 175 and 200 is the EMM settings, in fact that would be true for the 135 to 200, but the 135 and 150(?) have some physical exhaust port (or something to that affect) differences.

Regarding fuel lines, the boat had all fuel lines replaced 2 years ago, aside from those what lines (on the engine) are you referring to?

I cant find a Fuel Injector Man in Venice, but I found the same name operating right here in Naples, I think its the same guy.. maybe he moved..? Or did you just get your Italian cities mixed up. : ) He seems like the real deal and thanks for that nugget of info.

My etec guy seems ...good... and fair but I don't think he has the deep knowledge and experience with etecs that I want from someone I call "my mechanic". Looking for a recommendation for some one to make all the connections and fine tune it after I hang the engine. I want at least one really really seasoned guy to thoroughly go through the engine and correct any deficiencies that may have been missed. Iv'e been slow to hang it for just that reason. I'm willing to travel to east coast or perhaps even Tampa. Any suggestions from anyone?

[Bushwacker]

My new bride is Italian and she keeps me mixed up all the time!

Yes, I’m sure Fuel Injector Man is in Naples, not Venice. How fortunate that he’s right there in your backyard! I’ve spoken to him and he seems very knowledgeable. He used to be a devoted Merc/Yamaha fan, but said the E-TEC injectors produce the most beautiful spray pattern he’s ever seen and that made him an instant convert! He was so impressed with the design of the injectors and of the overall engine that he put a 175 E-TEC on his personal boat when his old Merc died.

In a 2-stroke motor, the vertical location and dimensions of the intake and exhaust ports, relative to the piston, determine the timing of the intake and exhaust events, much like the camshaft determines valve opening timing, duration and overlap in a 4-stroke. Even though the basic block dimensions are identical on all the 2.7L motors, it’s possible there are some subtle differences in the port machining between the 135 and 200. On any naturally aspirated engine, the hp/cubic inch ratio is often a good indicator of an engines temperament, i.e., low numbers = smooth idle, good low end torque; high numbers = rough idle and weak low speed torque but lots of power at high rpm. Boat surveyor Dave Pascoe said to beware of heavily turbocharged diesel engines that produce more than 1 HP/cu. in., as their durability is often no better than gas engines! The old marinized Perkins tractor engines in my trawler only make 135 hp @ 2800 rpm from 354 cubic inches, but they’re turning big 4B 27x21P props and will really make this 30 ton boat jump if you goose the throttle at idle! Very handy in close quarters maneuvering! They will easily push the boat to hull speed at about 1800 rpm, burning only ~ 2 gph each at ~ 8 kts.

[Rybones]

TFG, I was/have been looking pretty diligently for more than a year they are rare, I don't think you are going to find one for less than $5k and you have to act very quick. I have seen a few 175's and almost no 200's (25"). The 250's and 300's are far more common because of higher end repowers of twins. I have been looking for the 200 small block 60 degree because of the lighter weight as the 200HO is the larger block or 90 degrees and 100lbs heavier like the 225's and 250's. I still want a 200, but apparently I cant have one.

[DonV]

Hey Ryan, have you dealt with these guys or heard anything on their service department? Not too far from you.

https://gulfcoastmarinecenter.com/

[Rybones]

Yes, Don they are 2 buildings over from my shop. Nick is the owner, nice guy, not cheap, but he did let me borrow a lifting ring the this engine, instead of making me buy one. He sticks very tight to MSRP. But they do have all the parts I've ever needed in stock and Juanna is parts is super nice, so I've got that going for me. I haven't yet used them for service because I had been using Ronnie at Phantom Marine. Very knowledgeable, through, super reasonable and quick. But he doesn't do Etecs.

Denny, Do you know if the Fuel Injector Man does Etec service and rigging? I guess I could call and ask.

[Bushwacker]

Originally Posted by Rybones

Denny, Do you know if the Fuel Injector Man does Etec service and rigging? I guess I could call and ask.

He only cleans injectors. I did my own rigging and service. Those motors are fairly simple to work on, so get a service manual and do it yourself. You can also download an installation manual from the E-TEC site.

One thing you need to have done after installation is have a dealer run the fuel system restriction test. They tee in a vacuum gage in fuel line between tank and motor and then use laptop to run fuel pump at max flow with a fuel line putting it back in your tank, but don’t need to run motor. I think limit is 5” Hg vacuum. It’s required on all new engines because they’ve found some problems on the boat side on repowers. These new engines run so lean that they won’t tolerate fuel starvation that leans them out further. I bought a vacuum gage for the Racor filter that records max vacuum and lets you know when it’s time to change the filter. I think I did a post on that.