took her under the knife (need some opinions)

[SonOfABeach]

After shopping around for supplies (and actually setting up an account with a local company that only deals with boat builders, businesses, etc, moms educational consulting firm now has an "client entertainment ala SeaCraft" department , but saved a ton of money now and later, I'll never buy anything from West Marine or Boaters World again) and then waiting out a hurricane (hanna) and other random obligations, I finally got to work on my 20SF again.

While I was at work all day my dad was nice enough to do some prep work and lay down the layer of 1708 on the outer skin to thicken it up/prepare for the new core.





Then marked and cut out a template from the door skin, thanks for the tip grgrmouse was originally gonna go hunt down a huge refrigerator box and use cardboard but the appeal of not having to jump in a series of dumpsters was overwhelming . Test fit and trimmed down till a perfect fit. Just look at that beautiful VDR Hmmm what to do with this thing now? Maybe a life size CSC 74 Potter Built CSC poster for the shop wall?



Then laid out the Coosa to get ready to cut. Really impressed with this stuff so far, extremely light and easy to cut. Extra money was worth it for the less weight alone.





Got both pieces cut and cleaned them up some with the grinder, only needed a few touch ups here and there.



Sun was going down and the bugs were coming out so called it a night. Hopefully getting them epoxied together tonight after work and installed in the next day or two after some fitting and cleaning up as necessary. Just bought a new DSLR "like" digital camera (not enough into photography to justify buying a DSLR...yet), so couldnt help but snap a few of her. I know you guys have seen a million pictures of these boats but I cant help but posting a few, its just such a beautiful boat, even with her backend tore out haha.







Thanks for looking all, and all the opinions and advice, great community here. Hopefully have some more complete pictures up in the next couple of days or so. Trying to get all this done and the boat to my local Suzuki guy for him to mount the engine before the 4th when I leave for New Zealand for 10 days, so the whole plane ride back I can be thinking about my usable 20SF at home waiting for me.

[SonOfABeach]

Made some progress but didn't take any pics unfortunately, amazing the stuff you forget to do when you're working against the epoxy set timeline .

Friday night got the Coosa laminated together (layer of 1708 and thickened epoxy) and let that set up over night, solid as a rock in the morning.

Saturday we trial fitted it and got her nice and snug and then drilled the weep holes, buttered her with with some thickened epoxy, put a generous amount of thickened epoxy along the bottom for her to rest in and set her in place. Tightened down the 2x4s used to clamp her in place and then cleaned up the ooze that was coming from the holes.

Sunday I sanded down and cleaned up the messy spots where the epoxy oozed over night through the weep holes and around the bottom. Also did a lot of staring and thinking, which is what I go to from here.

I've been thinking and losing sleep over what you guys said in the beginning, about going back to a 20" transom with the heavier 4s. I'm basically locked in to the 20" motor sitting in the crate in my garage though, the out of town outfit we went with for the engine has been less than helpful. I mentioned before about them trying to get another sale out of me the day after I bought it when I inquired about coming up and switching it out for a 25" (wanted me to pay the difference ($1300) for a 2009, because they were sold out of 25" 2008s where the day before when I picked up mine they had them in stock). I even inquired later about trading down to a 140 Zuke like most guys on here did and eating the difference but they would have none of it. They also promised to not submit the warranty info to Suzuki till I called and told them I hung the engine (being that I knew it would most likely sit for a month or so while I replaced the transom) so I wouldn't lose that time in warranty when its sitting in a crate, but last week I got my warranty card and a "Dealer Satisfaction Survey" in the mail from Suzuki, gonna be fun to fill that out.

So what I'm 90ish percent positive I'm gonna do is leave the transom closed in, install a bracket, mount the 20" on the bracket. I've been searching this and classic mako for any post with a bracket over the past few days, and have realistically spent around 20 hours reading them over the weekend.

I've seen on Hermco's site that his are made for 25" shaft only, so a Hermco is out. In fact D&D Marine is the only company that has instructions for installing for a 20" shaft motor. A guy over on Classic Mako closed in his transom and put a bracket from D&D on his 19 and reported that he was pleased with the ride and flotation, getting a waterline about 1" lower with the bracket vs directly mounted on the transom. The D&D bracket is 16.5" x 18" x 30" long. I also have found another outfit that makes a bracket very similar to the D&D one in design but is 15.5" x 15.5" x 26" long (which after talking to him he said he could fabricate one with a larger flotation chamber if I wanted). Would the 4" less offset be of more value being closer to the transom provided less of a throw to the COG, or do you guys think the 4" more inches of flotation space would be better because it offsets the weight of the engine more? I've read CaptLloyd's post on the modifications he made to his B-Bracket to get more lift and how in retrospect he would have gone with a bracket that provided more flotation to begin with, but I'm kinda locked in place with the 20" shaft.

What do you guys think is the better option? Cutting the transom back to the 20" notch and risk having the water dangerously close (if not up to) to the line of the splash well because of the extra weight (and like you guys said, possibly killing the resale value because noone wants a 20" transom anymore, although right now I dont ever see myself selling her I want to keep my options open), or keeping the transom full, installing a positive flotation bracket like from D&D (or from the other guy and having him fabricate one with a wider flotation chamber for more weight offset) and possibly have the boat ride a little off from being stern heavy. I have redone with transom with Coosa saving weight, moved the batteries to under the console, pushed the fuel tank all the way forward, and could put a couple gallons of freshwater in the anchor storage up front to help offset the weight if need be, later add trim tabs, etc). It all just seems like the wisest choice to me to go with the bracket and closed transom. I'm pretty sure thats how I'm going, and hopefully get some reassurance from you guys. I know I might run into COG problems from doing this, but which is worse, working out COG issues, or having my boat/engine dangerously close to the waterline with a 20" transom and still probably have COG issues to work out? Thanks for any input guys.

[hermco]

They make shaft extension kits for Yamaha,Merc,OMC,Evinrude,Johnson. I don't know about Suzuki.

[SonOfABeach]

yeah I've done some searching for that and all I found were extension kits for the ones you listed. couldn't find anything for Suzuki except a post on the hull truth with someone else looking for one and finally deciding that they didn't exist, I'll do some more looking into that before ruling it out.

[Bigshrimpin]

http://www.baymfg.com/

I asked them about Suzuki extension about 2 years ago and they said something like the kits would void the warranty etc . . . so they weren't going to make them for Suzuki.

Bite the bullet and swap it out for $1300. You might ask them if they have a 25" 150 Suzuki too??? There is usually $1000 difference in price b/w the 150 vs the 175. Those extension kits are $600+ anyway. 20" on a bracket might work, but the powerhead will be close to the water coming off a plane.

[Bushwacker]

I'd pick the 140 over the 150 due to it's lighter weight, plus it should be cheaper; either one is more than enough power. I believe the 175 and 150 are about same weight; when I was looking at them, I would have picked the 175 over the 150 because it has variable cam timing, so it might also be a little more efficient than the 150.

[CaptLloyd]

SonOfABeach,

Welcome to the site, and you're doing a great job on your project! This site is a full of great information, and while we're at it, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Since you're rebuilding the transom, I feel it would be a mistake to cut it down to 20", especially since you're going to hang a 450+lbs motor, that's too much weight for a low cut out.

I feel the enclosed transom/bracket pro's outweigh the con's. And I don't see any reason why a bracket can not be set up for a 20" motor for the 20SF hull.

With that said, keep these points in mind,

1. Maximun floatation, but with minimun setback. If you're having one custom built, you could go with 25" setback, and twin size full floatation chamber. I like the shape of the Hermco.

2. You will want trim tabs. As you redo your boat, keep as much weight forward as you can. Since I added the floatation chamber to mine, I removed the ballast from the front, and it runs great at cruise with a little input from the trim tabs. (the ballast was mostly there for static trim).

Good luck and keep the post and pics coming!

Lloyd

[Bushwacker]

. . Would the 4" less offset be of more value being closer to the transom provided less of a throw to the COG, or do you guys think the 4" more inches of flotation space would be better because it offsets the weight of the engine more? I've read CaptLloyd's post on the modifications he made to his B-Bracket to get more lift and how in retrospect he would have gone with a bracket that provided more flotation to begin with, but I'm kinda locked in place with the 20" shaft.

What do you guys think is the better option? Cutting the transom back to the 20" notch and risk having the water dangerously close (if not up to) to the line of the splash well because of the extra weight (and like you guys said, possibly killing the resale value because noone wants a 20" transom anymore, although right now I dont ever see myself selling her I want to keep my options open), or keeping the transom full, installing a positive flotation bracket like from D&D (or from the other guy and having him fabricate one with a wider flotation chamber for more weight offset) and possibly have the boat ride a little off from being stern heavy. I have redone with transom with Coosa saving weight, moved the batteries to under the console, pushed the fuel tank all the way forward, and could put a couple gallons of freshwater in the anchor storage up front to help offset the weight if need be, later add trim tabs, etc). It all just seems like the wisest choice to me to go with the bracket and closed transom. I'm pretty sure thats how I'm going, and hopefully get some reassurance from you guys. I know I might run into COG problems from doing this, but which is worse, working out COG issues, or having my boat/engine dangerously close to the waterline with a 20" transom and still probably have COG issues to work out? Thanks for any input guys.

Closing in the transom is probably a good idea with that heavy motor. I suspect the cowls on most of the new motors are pretty watertight, at least enough to survive a quick dunking, so I think it's more important to keep water out of the boat in rough seas than to worry about motor being temporarily dunked by a big wave. Don't know about the Zuke, but one E-Tec demo of one of the smaller motors showed it continuing to run after they completely buried the cowl by backing down fast enough to put it under!

Don Herman might be able to modify one of his brackets for a 20" shaft, so I wouldn't rule that out without asking him. I wouldn't worry about the resale issue because it's probably easier to modify a 20" bracket for 25" shaft than vice versa. I'd go with the smallest setback you can get away with, because that aft weight shift is ALWAYS there, even when you're on plane, while the flotation tank only helps at rest! Should be able to figure out min setback from the installation drawings that should have come with the motor. If you go with a custom bracket, just make the flotation tank as wide and deep as possible, with the shortest possible setback. When I was looking at the Armstrong bracket, I considered going with the twin engine bracket to get biggest tank with a single engine. And if it's aluminum, powdercoat is probably the most durable finish unless you just leave it bare like they do on many workboats.

Adding ballast in the bow is a generally poor way to correct a CG balance problem because more weight always hurts performance. Carl Moesly did use ballast tanks in his race boats to adjust CG for running into head seas, but he had them rigged so he could dump the ballast whenever it wasn't needed. I'd move console & batteries forward as much as possible, and try a Doelfin, a stern lifting prop, and trim tabs, in approximately that order (of increasing cost!) before adding useless weight!

[BigLew]

Hey SONOFABEACH,

Take a look at this. Fr. Frank brought it up a year or so ago and it makes some sense.

http://www.hydro-shield.com/

Good luck! - BL