Fueling/Motor problems - would appreciace input

[eggsuckindog]

OK not excatly sure what you don't understand about Isolate and Eliminate - if you take each item mentioned and disconeect that item and it runs - then that is it. If you disconnect the filter and it runs fine I don't give a rats ass what the guy that sold you the motor says thats the problem. I also don't intend for you to run around all day without the cap - come on - just crack it or something to let some air in it, thats venting the system. Thats why I told you to do each one separate - so you will know which item it is. If you crack the cap, disconnect the filter and bypass the bulb and it runs fine, which one is it - you have no clue. So disconnect the filter again if it ran fine without it, try it and if runs fine something is wrong in the filter, pretty simple. You have to remember - mariana guys are not as smart as they think they are, and your not as dumb as you think you are.

I used to be a marina guy but its too hot out there, just do what I tell you you'll find it

[gss036]

Pretty easy to check the fuel tank vent, when you put gas into the tank, you should be able to hear and feel it venting, if not use an air hose and blow back through it. May be that the screen that covers the vent on the hull is clogged, in that case a good can of carb clear or the likes will clean it for you. You may have to remove the fuel sender from the tank and take a look with an inspection light. If the tank is full of junk, as mine was, it does not take a lot of the small particle to clog the filter and or pick if there is a screen on it. My pick up tube in the original tank unscrewed from the tank and the ends a "V" notch on the bottom, no screen. I use a small HONDA/RACOR filter and it is a 10 micron and it was clogged.

[eggsuckindog]

Check anything lately, its almost the weekend

[eggsuckindog]

I may have been tad abrupt but I just want to get you back out there without spending bunch at some marina for nothing - my phone number is in my sig - I want your next post about a Tuna not fuel issues- isolate and eliminate your road to boating bliss

[mbo_1971]

Thanks guys for all the suggestions. I will apologize to ESD for not following his directions post haste – I was just hoping to try and troubleshoot without investing anything if not needed. Buying a remote tank was going to be another $75+ that I would rather not have spent if it was something simple and obvious at the main tank. So this past weekend I was able to give this a shot.

After popping the cover plate I found the following:



Clockwise from 7 o’clock are:

- fuel pickup

- fuel fill line (brand new)

- fuel vent line (brand new)

- mystery – alternate fuel pickup (more on that in a min)


First thing I did was inspect the fuel vent. I disconnected it at the tank and blew back through. No significant difficulty in passing air through the line and there was no resistance and no change in pressure (like something moved in the line). I think this one can be checked off the list.


Next I moved to the fuel pickup.

In focusing on the fuel pickup, I see the following:



I'm a bit intimidated here – is it me or does this think look welded in? Maybe this is how they all look on tanks of this age? I gave it a little torque, but there was no movement. I really did not try too hard as I did not want to break something off here. I'm all ears on how to think about this one, but needless to say, since it looked welded in, I didn’t try too hard.


Another question here – should the anti-siphon valve be on the outside of the tank attached to the elbow? The only thing that was attached was the fuel line nipple, and it was straight through (no valve inside). Could the anti-siphon be inside the tank?

This lead me to the 4th item under the cover plate – the alternate fuel pickup. Any thoughts on this one? Is it worth trying this as a possibly un-clogged fuel pickup – just move the fuel line nipple over from where it is now?

Since I struck out on the main tank, I bought a 6-gal Moeller tank with 3/8’s supply line, fuel bulb and in-line filter (just in case). To isolate that this was a motor problem, I have done as suggested and hooked this tank directly to the fuel line feeding the fuel pump. Bulb pressurized no problem. Motor fired up no problem. Idled with no noticeable problem (the 200 HPDI is a bit of a rough idle as it goes to 4 cyl during idle). Into gear and up to 1300 rpm no real issue, but thought I noticed a little miss here and there. Shrugged it off as me being overly concerned. Putted the ¼ mi of no-wake at 6knts no real issue. Once out of the no-wake, I slowly throttled up. 2K, no prob. 2.5k, no prob. 2.8K and motor bogs. Pulled back throttle. Putted at 1300 rpm for another minute to think it over, and gave it another shot. Same issue – at about 2800 rpm, motor bogs down.

The upside is that I now have an issue isolated at the motor – a place to start. My first guess is the filter below the fuel injector. That will be this weekend’s project.

I am now thinking that I now have 2 issues. First is a clogged filter in the vapor canister (understand how that would have happened if you read my last post – bypassed the 10micron filter for a short time). The second is in the main tank and likely thinking it is the screen on the bottom of the fuel-pickup line and or (assuming it is inside the tank) the anti-siphon valve. It’s a 25 yo. tank and prolly has a bunch of crud in it that I am going to have to work through will its cleaned out and caught by the main 10micron filter.

Thoughts or suggestions from here are welcome. Specifically, thoughts on how to attack the elbow at the tank. Thanks again for hanging in there with me on this one. Much appreciated.

[Old'sCool]

From the pic it looks welded to me. Mine is screwed in and was VERY tight. The anti siphon is basically a ball inside the piece you're trying to unscrew. It would stop flow out of the tank if inverted. The VST tank contains the HP pump and yes, this screen can become clogged. It's not a bad job. I've done my OX66 a few times.

[eggsuckindog]

Well the plot thickens LOL - OK I wouldn't try that pickup either but your idea of switching the other is good.
Bypassing the filter a short time I'm sure didn't do anything, have you dumped the filter into something to check if its picking up any trash??

The Yamaha's do seem to have issues with the VST filter, as they mentioned on THT, you would be only one more of thousands. Frankly based on other THT posts that is probably the issue on the motor, sure sounds like all the others. I think they can be cleaned and see if the yami guys can help you re-use the O ring too - both filter and O ring are $30 ea. Do a search over there and on Florida sportsman - boating. I think FS gives better info.

We have to have the motor running though - I don't think you even have an anti syphon valve - the vent seems good - I would blow back through the fuel line, that will clear any debris on the pickup at least for awhile to check it. If the tank has that much stuff in it you should find stuff in the filter too.

first thing now would be do the VST and get it running on the 6 gal tank with no filter - that bulb might just have been bad though, I have never seen one suck flat though and its not the vent- not the anti syphon - at least we're elminating some stuff - down to pickup and filter on the boatside. I'll do a search on FS and see if I can come up with anything

Ok did the search - good grief they have filters - here is just one that a guy is doing himself and seems helpful - I just did a search for VST filter in boating forum and and bunch comes up - you should probably do it yourself as there is too much.

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=788906

[mbo_1971]

Well - finally got a chance to try and give this another shot. After talking to a few people, the suggestion was to change the VST and the inline filter as well. Popped the cowl and started up at the clear bowl in front of the inline and VST. This is where fuel first comes into the motor.



Literally an inch of crud at the bottom of it and, in looking at the panel filter at the top of the bowl, the folds were almost packed with crud. The bowl came off fine, but trying to put it back in was a little tough. I have not had ethanol in the boat for long, but the clear bowl and or the o-ring at the top had already swelled a bit. Good trick i had heard was to throw it in the freezer for a bit. I did so while i worked on the other issues and when it came time to reassemble, it popped right back on. Fortunately a buddy of mine had a new panel filter so i replaced that as well in the process. I would recommend for those doing this maintenance so next was the inline filter. This one is kinda tricky and a bit a pain.



The picture is kinda small (stolen from ESD's thread) and i did not take any pict of our process (unfortunately). The key is the black collar that protrudes from the silver fitting. It along with the inline filter need to be pushed back towards the silver fitting, and with the black collar still pushed back towards the silver fitting, pull the inline away from the fitting and it should release. Its not completely intuitive but once its done you are like, oh, that is what i was supposed to do.

So the VST was last and was probably the easiest. Cracked the screws at the top, released the drain at the bottom and collected the fuel. Unbolted the vapor canister from the head (watch out for those washers!) Cracked the canister (REALLY WATCH ALL THOSE LITTLE SCREWS!) Removed the gasket/o-ring and then the VST. It was not the same semi translucent color (more brown - same color as the gunk in the clear bowl.) VST takes a little thinking, but is overall not bad to pull and replace.

Buttoned everything up and headed up to the fuel pickup. I had hit it with PB Blaster the day before and once it put the wrench on it and tapped the wrench just ever so slightly it spun off with very little resistance. No anti siphon valve in the elbow and no screen at the bottom of the tube. Back in it went with no-seize paste and fuel line back on.

Dunked the boat, putted out of 6knt zone, leaned on her - 1800 RPM, no prob, 2000 RPM no prob, 2200 RPM no prob (this is where she was choking out on me) and up she went....WHEW, what a relief! Ran her for about 45 min and varying speeds and pulled her off plane and put her back on a bunch of times and no issues.

Thanks guys for the suggestions and the moral support on this one. Hoping I have it licked at this point, but will wait to log some longer trips on her before i call it done. Man, dealing with motor issues is a real headache and is really stressful.

Matt