(re) Thinking about buying a 1973 Seafari.

[Seaman]

Thank you everyone.
I am thrilled by level of enthusiasm you all have for these boats. I have yet to inspect the boat, due to the owner being out of town until thursday. Your comments have me chomping at the bit.

I am located about as far from where the boat was built, without leaving the U.S.A.(not including Alaska or Hawaii)
I'm up in Bellingham Wa, which is on the coast and not far from the Canadian border.

So more opinions on the Force out board would be appreciated. If it starts easy, runs great, and the compression checks out, is it still a P.O.S.?

Overall the boat looks great(from a distance). The lower half is a dark blue with a white stripe on the bottom(IIRC), and the top is bright white. (Please bear with my non-seaman like terminology). Owner claims all is in perfect working order, other than one windshield wiper is not functioning.

So down to the "brass tax". I think he is asking a bit over 5k. If everything checks out good, is this a good deal? Should I(like Briguy suggests) look at I as though I am Buying the boat without an outboard. I have started looking for a newer used 140ish HP(maybe Suzuki) with little success.

Lets just assume all is good including motor. What is fair market value(as if there is more than one of these in my town)? What is a good/screaming deal?

Same question, no motor?

I appreciate every ones input, (newbie)Seaman

[Mark]

Keep an eye on this site as well as boattrader, floridasportsman, craigslist in florida, etc. $5K for a Seafari with a Force outboard is not a steal by any stretch. In this economy it's likely considered a premium unless it's been restored to pristine condition with a new raised transom.

[McGillicuddy]

Seaman,
Mark makes a great point. I've seen three listed here in the 5 to 8k range. One just listed on this site today for 8.8k but mind you it has a relatively new (quality) 4 stroke and looks great at a glance. Also on this site you'll see Fr. Franks w/ recent Optimax for 6 or 7k and fdhelds blue beaut with a nice looking 135hp Merc Black Max in the 5ks. And another in west FL with what looks like a late 90s Johnson for 4k

On the other end there's a 77 down here in San Diego w/a guy asking 3.5k. He's down to 1700 now and still can't move it. Has a clean if older 150 evinrude. It's that pretty blue color and the hull looks great but has been neglected and the floor is shot and the transom suspect. I got mine for 2800 with a twenty five year old Merc last year when the market was still strong and Ive already put a couple k into new electronics, wiring, motor adjustment and trailer repair and while most of my money is spent for now, I still have to finish the rigging. Maybe I over paid but I'm still smilin about this boat. But you couldn't pick a better time to buy a boat - right now people are wheelin and dealin... check out some of the pictures to have something to compare to. Good luck.

Just one more thing - the weight of the motor on these boats is very touchy especially on the older ones as they have low floors and thru hull scuppers. That can mean cold toes in Bellingham's chilly waters. I believe they were designed in the era of 300 lbs motors. The zukes you mentioned are over 400 lbs and the honda 130, nearly 500.

[Fr. Frank]

There's also a '73 Seafari for sale locally for $1800 including trailer, with a 3.0 liter Mercruiser Sterndrive. Galvanized Murray roller-type trailer needs springs, new axle and new wheels/tires. mid-90's motor, with original pre-Alpha drive and gimbal. All original except helm seat, including 1973 electronics (VHF and paper-charting fishfinder/depth recorder). It's been in Craigslist several times, I think it's just north of St. Pete.

There's also a gem of '75 Seafari for sale up for $1200 in Cambellton Florida in Jackson county (near Alabama-Florida line) displayed right on Hwy 231. I stopped this past Saturday and looked at it. It's powered by the original 1975 Evinrude 135 hp 90* small-block V4. I didn't hear it run, but the motor looked really rough outside, and extremely clean (like NEW) under the cover, and the owner (original owner's son) said it ran "flawlessly". It has an old aluminum single-axle trailer, in very good condition.Has original navy convertible top, and has the original fiberglass motor-well cover/hood with the VDH hull logo.

Now for the condition of that '75:
Extremely chalky hull and topsides. Deck is solid, transom has no flex, or hollow sounding spots when tapped with (no kidding) the owner's gun butt. Teak cabin door is missing and never replaced, the original canvas is rotted, and original ceiling hatch replaced with custom curved-lexan hatch now greening and crazed with cracks. Owner stated boat has not been used since his Dad died over two years ago, although it has been started an run on the hose every couple of months. At first he said every week, but when I gave him a look, he admitted that it was only every couple of months.

Here's what attracted me - the hull is one of the very few original "Fighting Lady Yellow" Seafari's ever built. I wish I had the money to buy it.

BTW, the only reason I was asking $7K for mine a few months ago was because the motor has a book value of $5800.

[Fr. Frank]

So more opinions on the Force out board would be appreciated. If it starts easy, runs great, and the compression checks out, is it still a P.O.S.?

Lets just assume all is good including motor. What is fair market value(as if there is more than one of these in my town)? What is a good/screaming deal?

Same question, no motor?

The motor is not worth much monetarily. But for someone who is on a tight budget, it's a great temporary deal-maker. IF, I say IF the motor can be proved to have been competently rebuilt (with receipts) in the last 180 days, it's worth $800-$1000. Other wise, it's worth $400-$500 if it tests out in great condition.

For those who sneer at Chrysler/Force motors, here's a tidbit: According to Mercury Marine, as a percentage of overall production, there are more 30+ year old Chrysler outboards in the 100-125 hp range still running than any other brand. In fact, if you take any given year from 1966 all the way through 1984, there is a higher percentage of Chrysler motors in the 1.5 to 2.0 liter range still running than any other brand for the same years. (please note that statistic does not apply after 1984)

That translates into the fact that the Chrysler 100-103 cubic inch/1.6-1.7L four cylinder outboard design is the most reliable outboard motor ever built in the 1.5L to 2.0L displacement range as measured over three decades or more of use.

(BTW, according to an October '08 Mercury press release, the new most reliable current-production motor in the 1.4-2.0 liter size is the Mercury Optimax 1.5L 75-115hp 2 strokes, followed by the Suzuki 2.0L 100-140hp four strokes. The source they quoted was an NMMA sheet that also stated that for 2.1-3.0L, it's the Evinrude eTec 150hp, and for 3.1L and above, it's the Suzuki 3.6L 4-strokes again. Mercury does not make an engine bigger than 3.0L Optimax. Even the prototype Mercury 400 hp I-6 Verado motors are only 2.6L)

The Chrysler/Force is also the noisiest, most smoky, and sometimes most finicky motor. If you mess with the carburetor settings, you will likely NEVER get it right again short of complete rebuild of the carburetors. If you run the best oil, and run the fuel mix at 44-1, instead of 50-1, it will last a long, long time. If the motor was on the back of a little bass boat, 50-1 mix would be fine. But one the back of a 2000 lb Seafari, run a little richer oil mix to keep the bearings cool.

I had twin 105 Chryslers on my 25' Mako back in the mid 70's. They were the most reliable outboard motors I ever had. (The only other motor to come close was my '92 Merc 150 xR2) One or those 105's hated to start cold, the other hated to start hot. Choke the snot out of the cold-starting motor to begin the day, start the other motor at WOT only once it was warmed up. But they never, ever let me down. I don't know anyone who used these motors on a regular basis who didn't like them. Just the folks who used their boats 4 or 5 times a season and then never maintained them.

Now the downside:
Some Chrysler/Force parts are getting harder to come by, even though most of them are still available from Mercury. They are not really salt-water motors. If you run in salt, you must spray down the powerhead with WD40 or CRC after every time you run, or spray with FluidFilm or other corrosion preventative frequently. (I use FluidFilm).

Water pressure is essential in the Chrysler/Force motors. My current Merc 90 develops 8-10 lbs pressure underway, and briefly develops 28 lbs prior to the thermostat and poppet valve opening. I used to get 15-25 lbs of water pressure in my 1976 Chryslers, although I understand the newer Force motors only needed 10-12 lbs.

With the Chrysler/Force motor, water pressure is life!!. Change the impeller every year, or every 100 hours, whichever comes first. Change it again if you suspect the pressure is low, or if you sneeze in the direction of the motor. (You get the idea)

NEVER, NEVER run without a thermostat. You will have inadequate water pressure on the top cylinder. If you do get this boat, you should immediately replace the impeller AND the thermostat, after first verifying the new thermostat works at the advertised temperature.

Do this, and then you can use the boat safely while looking for that DEAL for your eventual repower.

[eggsuckindog]

I will chime in here as well, to value the outfit break it apart - what is the trailer worth on the used market - whats the hull worth - what's the motor worth, add it up. Now the motor is worthless from a resale point- it may well give you a year or 2 or 3 but in reallity is worth nothing. The problem is finding someone to fix it and the parts are expensive and scarce even if you can find them - don't put alot of money in it - look to repower if any issues appear -hence don't pay anything for it. The trailer is apparently nice and pretty new, that should be easy to price - the hull if no soft spots in the floor or transom and not alot of paint or whatnot maybe 3K + trailer your close. Just use the motor up and don't mess with it to try and keep it running is all, their are plenty of older Rudes as better options that anybody works on and parts are cheap and they will go forever. You need at least 150 or more for the boat to run right just as an FYI if you need a repower IMHO. Actually would be a good boat out there as its kinda chilly and the winshield is nice, I enjoyed my winshield even in Fl