23 vs Moesly 21 Ride

McGillicuddy · #1 08-21-2010, 02:34 PM

Just seeking opinions - which hull rides better? The Moesly SeaCraft 21 or one of the Potter 23' configurations?
My use would be to run to projected offshore fishing areas typically 10 to 40 miles then hunt trolling and drop live baits on drift or slow troll.

By better ride I consider soft landings and dry ride cutting into head seas, stability in a mixed up 2 to 3 foot chop as well as maneuverability and control in a following sea.

Also which is more stable at rest or if two or three guys are pulling and gaffing tuna on the same side?

BigLew · #2 08-21-2010, 03:48 PM

How do YOU define better?

I believe the two hulls were designed with somewhat different purposes/uses in mind as the target performance criteria. My impression is that the 21' was designed for a little more top end in a prevailing sea open water race situation such as Miami to Nassau, while the 23' was designed to give up slightly on the top end for better all around recreational use.

I have the 23' Scepter with an I/O and simply love the performance. Better than average to excellent performace/ride in virtually all sea conditions plus better than average speed, but not the fastest in its class but still better than most. JMHO!

McGillicuddy · #3 08-21-2010, 04:35 PM

Big Lew, what is your power on the I/O?

BigLew · #4 08-21-2010, 06:18 PM

Curretly it has 260 out of a 350 GM block; standard 4b carb. I will repower it if/when it goes back in the water with something 310+. I favor a carb because of on the water repair possibility, but may go with fuel injection. It depends on what is available then and how much. My WOT was in the high 30's. Not as much as I might like on a flat day, but more than enough for the Northeast nasties.

cdavisdb · #5 08-21-2010, 06:34 PM

The 21 is very sharp forward, sharper than the 23 and even the 25 seafari. It should, confirmed by reputation, ride better into a head sea. Not to say that the 23 isn't very good. The 21 has very high sides forward, a higher CG than the 23 and will, almost certainly, be less stable in a cross sea. The 21's VDH hull shape is very similar to the 23in the aft sections, so it should not act much different when crowding weight on one side, either is better than a straight deep V or the seafari 25.

Bushwacker · #6 08-21-2010, 07:15 PM

Gillie, have you found a 21 you're not telling us about?! Don't be holdin' out on us!!

Based on comments from my friend that owned the 21' "Unohu" for over 25 years and made many Bahamas crossings with 23's, I'd say it's no contest - the 21 is definitely the softer riding boat, even though the 23 is generally considered to be very good! He said that every time the seas got over 3-4', the guys with the 23's would be calling him on the radio, "Begging for mercy", asking him to slow down. . . and he didn't run that fast! Even with the V-8, he only cruised at about 20 kts because that only required 9" of manifold vacuum (vs. a "max continuous" limit of 5"), so it was easy on the engine and gave best gas mileage. When he had the I-6 outdrives, he cruised at about 18 kts (regardless of sea state!) at about 7" vacuum. Most guys I know that rode in it, myself included, say its the softest riding boat of that size they'd ever ridden in, although some said that Bob, who was a pretty tough guy and an Army vet that served in both WWII and Korea, just had a higher "threshold of pain" than everyone else!

You have to remember that the 21 was Carl Moesly's original design, and I'm sure he designed it with the intent to race it, to see if it had any weak spots. He had already done that with the American Marc boats before he designed the 21 and started SeaCraft. The 23 is totally a Bill Potter design, not a stretch of the 21 as some folks think; it was never raced that I know of. Potter's background was basically that of a sales guy (who wrote some great ads!) and I don't believe he really understood the VDH design principles. The spray rail on the 23 would make it the drier of the 2 boats, but that's also in the direction to create more lift and a harder ride.

As for which one is more stable in a chop, I'd say that's a toss up. The vertical steps are much taller on the 21 which might tend to act as keels and damp roll, but I'm sure the 23 is much heavier so that might make it better. The difference in vertical CG between an I/O and O/B configuration might be more significant than the hull differences. Denny

Bushwacker · #7 08-21-2010, 07:27 PM

Lew, I think you're right about the design target, although I believe the 21 is also a much lighter boat. With the same 260 hp/350 Mercruiser, the "Unohu" would run low 40's with a light load. Bob's last (of 4!) engine was a 270 hp Volvo outdrive (same block but different cam and carb jetting), and he said it would hit about 50 mph with a light load!

BigLew · #8 08-22-2010, 12:22 AM

Quote:

it would hit about 50 mph with a light load!

That's probably with a 3-4 knot current!

BigLew · #9 08-22-2010, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Just seeking opinions - which hull rides better? The Moesly SeaCraft 21 or one of the Potter 23' configurations?
My use would be to run to projected offshore fishing areas typically 10 to 40 miles then hunt trolling and drop live baits on drift or slow troll.

By better ride I consider soft landings and dry ride cutting into head seas, stability in a mixed up 2 to 3 foot chop as well as maneuverability and control in a following sea.

Also which is more stable at rest or if two or three guys are pulling and gaffing tuna on the same side?

Hands down; the 23'! Particulary if it is a I/O or inboard.

Bushwacker · #10 08-22-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Hands down; the 23'! Particulary if it is a I/O or inboard.

I've ridden in both, and as good as the 23 is, I'd say the 21 is the softer (but wetter) riding of the two.

Also spoke with a friend who followed the 21 "Unohu" to West End, Grand Bahama in his 23' Sceptre on one trip with 20-25 mph East winds and 10-12' head seas! Took 'em 5 hrs to make the 60 nm run! The owner of that 23 had also made many dive trips on the "Unohu", and he agreed that the 21 rode a little softer but also said it was a lot wetter. He was bringing up the rear in a string of 5 boats on that particularly rough crosssing, with the Unohu leading. He said the seas were big enough that the Unohu would disappear when it went over a wave, and that you could tell how big the next wave was by the angle of the spray from the 21 when it punched into the next wave. If it was 45 degrees, you knew it wasn't too bad, but every so often it would look like a couple of fire hoses shooting straight up when that big high bow punched into a really big one!

He also said that the skipper of the "Unohu" had been seen driving across the Gulf Stream wearing a mask & snorkle!

That makes sense to me and probably to anyone else who wears glasses all the time . . . if you wear a prescription mask, only one side of the lens will get wet when the spray hits, which is a big improvement!