1978 Sceptre 23 repower with bracket, what is the best setup? Guidance needed!

[whistler]

I currently have a 1978 Sceptre 23, single Mercury 200EFI on the transom. The boat is an original outboard boat. The boat is in good condition and underwent a refit in 2001. It was re-powered with the Merc 200 EFI at the same time. I have updated the electronics and some of the wiring, and the boat is pretty much perfect for my needs. Its small enough to tow long distances with my Tundra, small enough to fish inshore or on lakes - yet big enough to go offshore or cross the stream to the Bahamas. I live 4 hours from the ocean (Gulf) so I have to temper my desire for a bigger boat

Last season, I started having intermittent problems with the motor. Of course, the problem showed up when I was in Bimini Bahamas At times, the motor drops 3 cylinders and obviously runs like sh$&t! All the motor vitals are good, but I have yet to find the root cause of the problem. I am a capable mechanic, and have all the necessary tools, but do not have much time and I would much rather enjoying the boat instead of chasing gremlins.

So this brings me to the repower. The transom and fuel tank are original, so I would like to redo those at the same time. I would really like to add a Hermco bracket and close in the transom for the added space and safety. At the same time, I would like to cut out the live-well (currently blocked off) and improve bilge access. I plan to replace the fuel tank and may even fit a larger tank if it fits, 140G like in the later boats for example.

The details of the future power bracket combination are a bit fussy. I need to decide between twins or a single and between a 2 stroke or 4 stroke. I like the idea of having twins for the added perceived safety, but don't like the added costs and weight. Whatever I do, I do not want to degrade the ride! It seems that modern outboards are pretty reliable so I am leaning towards a Suzuki 300, or 250. I am also considering an Optimax or an E-tec (due to less weight). Whats is the best combo? Braket for twins with a single 30" Zuk 300? Something else? Are twin 4-stokes (Zuk 140's or even 175's) too much weight? Whatever power I get, I may buy slightly used or new, depending on whats available at the time.

Thanks for the suggestions,
Mike

[DonV]

There are quite a few re-power threads here on CSC, keep searching! More info than you may want!

I did not notice a budget number, to do most of what you are looking at you're into the big $$$ numbers! Also look at Hermco's website for other great ideas, he does a bunch of SeaCrafts.

The most popular re-power engine right now is Suzuki. There are at least five on here who have re-powered with the 300 hp, really hard to beat their cost, fuel burn and dependability. I've been looking and the cost of a Yamaha versus Suzuki is in the $4k to $5k difference.

Good luck.

[whistler]

Don, thanks for the feedback. I have read through several re-power threads. It is still not clear to me how to best proceed. My initial thought was to take the boat to Hermco, follow his recommendation and have Don work his magic. However, I just found out that he no longer takes on work, other then building brackets.
As far as budget, I would like to have everything done for under 25K. Under 20K would be even better, but that all depends on the cost of the motor - finding a deal!

[Bushwacker]

Originally Posted by whistler

. . . The details of the future power bracket combination are a bit fussy. I need to decide between twins or a single and between a 2 stroke or 4 stroke. I like the idea of having twins for the added perceived safety, but don't like the added costs and weight. Whatever I do, I do not want to degrade the ride! It seems that modern outboards are pretty reliable so I am leaning towards a Suzuki 300, or 250. I am also considering an Optimax or an E-tec (due to less weight). Whats is the best combo? Braket for twins with a single 30" Zuk 300? Something else? Are twin 4-stokes (Zuk 140's or even 175's) too much weight? Whatever power I get, I may buy slightly used or new, depending on whats available at the time.

Thanks for the suggestions,
Mike

Welcome aboard Mike! Don't know where you're located, but if you're in S. Fl., ARG Marine is a good source of used motors. (It's a good idea to include your location in your profile if you want help from local sources.) They claim to be the largest E-TEC dealer in the country, so they take in a lot of used motors and also sell Honda's and Yamahas, so they take in trades of all brands. They're selling a lot of the new G2 models, so they often take in G1 models in trade. The G2's are just as heavy as the 4-strokes, so although they will beat the 4-strokes on fuel burn, they've lost their weight advantage, so I'm partial to the G1 models for use on a bracket, since, with the exception of the 115, they generally have the best power/weight ratio of any modern motor, with lots of low end torque. Keep in mind that the latest "Lightweight" 4-strokes got that way by removing the steel sleeves and just plating the aluminum blocks, which makes them throw-away motors if you ever overheat and seize a piston! As far as I know, non of the DI 2-strokes have gone to that extreme, so are easily repaired.

Brackets need to be mounted as low as possible to maximize flotation, but my experience is that with a 30" setback, the AV plate needs to be about 6" above the keel to get it out of the water where it should be when you're up on plane. Most brackets will not allow you to raise the motor that much, as it typically puts the lower mount bolts ABOVE the swim platform, so you will probably have to add a minimal-setback jack plate from Vance Manufacturing to fully realize the performance benefits of a bracket. You may also have to run a stern lifting 4B prop and a fin on the AV plate to get the same low planing speed you'd have with a single engine mounted on the transom.

If you haven't read my "sticky" post on the pros & cons of brackets that's a good place to start. Although my experience is with the 20' hull, which is very sensitive to weight distribution, the same general comments apply to the 23, although a bracket will cause less of a CG shift due the larger mass and size. All modern motors are so reliable that I think it's hard to justify the extra cost, weight, and maintenance of twins that also have twice as much to go wrong! Their one advantage is that they will draw less water which may be important if you often run in skinny water, although a 23 is definitely more of an offshore boat than a flats boat! If you do go with twins, make sure one of them has enough low end torque to plane the boat on one engine! Many 4-strokes will not do that, in which case you'd be much better off with a big single and a sailboat-type kicker with a big slow turning prop that can easily push the boat to hull speed!

[whistler]

Bushwacker, thanks. I read your "sticky", just was not sure how much translates to the 23, especially the cuddy.

I am in Birmingham Alabama, and keep the boat on Lewis Smith Lake. My boating is either on the lake (great striper fishing!) or I trailer to the Alabama Gulf coast or the Florida Panhandle. Last year, I trailered the boat to Ft. Lauderdale and crossed over to Bimini Bahamas for a week. Loved that and definitely plan to do Bahamas again.

Does anybody on the board have a potter era Sceptre 23 with the Hermco dual bracket and with a single 30" Zuk300? That seems to be the combo to have.

As far as getting the work done, I am willing to drive to find high quality at a reasonable cost. One stop shopping would be nice.

[DonV]

Back up to post #3. A new 300 hp Suzuki, fly by wire controls, standard electronic gauge, rigging, with tax included is right at $20,000. A Hermco bracket is about $3,000. Your $25,000 budget is going fast.

[whistler]

The fuel tank is another 1K and the transom fiberglass work another 5K. I do not have any illusions about the costs. Don, are you suggesting that this is not worth doing? I am not sure I can buy a better boat for 30K. I am betting on finding a slightly used motor (couple years old, couple hundred hours). I may even settle for the DF250, Opti or E-tec depending on what I can find at the time of repower. I think $25K is quite reasonable.

[DonV]

Oh no, not at all! It's worth the investment. I'm looking at re-powering, that's how I know that cost.....ouch! Go to the for sale section, EricB has a 23' Secptre fully restored with new power to get an idea what can be done. I know quite well what new boats cost, that's why I keep working on mine.

I asked Paul Knoop who owns Family Boating Center in Tampa, I bought a new boat from 23 years ago when he was just getting started, how do people afford $110,000+ for a new decked out 25' big name brand bay boat? He said they don't care about the cost, all they care about is "how much a month!"

[Snookerd]

Originally Posted by whistler

I may even settle for the DF250, Opti or E-tec depending on what I can find at the time of repower. I think $25K is quite reasonable.

You need a DF300. You deserve one! I am sure that all the Suzuki dealers will have waaay to many used DF300's available after the DF350 comes out in 4-5 days. Lot's of upgrades on the way.

[gofastsandman]

Originally Posted by DonV

Oh no, not at all! It's worth the investment. I'm looking at re-powering, that's how I know that cost.....ouch! Go to the for sale section, EricB has a 23' Secptre fully restored with new power to get an idea what can be done. I know quite well what new boats cost, that's why I keep working on mine.

I asked Paul Knoop who owns Family Boating Center in Tampa, I bought a new boat from 23 years ago when he was just getting started, how do people afford $110,000+ for a new decked out 25' big name brand bay boat? He said they don't care about the cost, all they care about is "how much a month!"

I can see the dust cloud from here.
Don opens wallet.
Vis near zero.

If you use your boat a lot, a repower makes sense if you have long runs.
If you look at condos whilst in the stream, maybe not so much.
Almost bought another rude 150 op just because...